8.9.12

Media, tell us what the courts say about your role in 26/11 attacks



There is silence. The other ‘culprits’ do not wish to discuss that. Ajmal Kasab to hang has spun many stories, many kangaroo court verdicts aside from the Supreme Court one. But there are no TV debates on what the SC said about the role of the electronic media. It is a scathing indictment that states, among several other things in a section titled ‘Role of the Media’ (all other relevant portions will follow):

403. Apart from the transcripts, we can take judicial notice of the fact that the terrorists attacks at all the places, in the goriest details, were shown live on the Indian TV from beginning to end almost non-stop. All the channels were competing with each other in showing the latest developments on a minute to minute basis, including the positions and the movements of the security forces engaged in flushing out the terrorists. The reckless coverage of the terrorist attack by the channels thus gave rise to a situation where on the one hand the terrorists were completely hidden from the security forces and they had no means to know their exact position or even the kind of firearms and explosives they possessed and on the other hand the positions of the security forces, their weapons and all their operational movements were being watched by the collaborators across the border on TV screens and being communicated to the terrorists.

Therefore, should it be talking about ethics and censorship?

Again, the SC verdict says:

405. Any attempt to justify the conduct of the TV channels by citing the right to freedom of speech and expression would be totally wrong and unacceptable in such a situation. The freedom of expression, like all other freedoms under Article 19, is subject to reasonable restrictions. An action tending to violate another person’s right to life guaranteed under Article 21 or putting the national security in jeopardy can never be justified by taking the plea of freedom of speech and expression.


It is surprising that B.Raman, an authority and one-time insider of the intelligence agency, should dismiss this in a Rediff piece with:

These observations have been made as Obiter. The legal dictionary defines an obiter as 'Words of an opinion entirely unnecessary for the decision of the case. A remark made or opinion expressed by a judge in a decision upon a cause, 'by the way'…Thus, the observations made by the court are not a pronouncement of a judgement or legal determination on the possible responsibility of the media. Those are the passing observations made by the court during its review of some visual/audio recordings seen by it while examining Kasab's appeal against the death sentence.

The judgment does mention Obiter, but the contents are damning enough for the media to introspect and make public this aspect too, as they do with other legal and non-legal issues.

I will reproduce a segment from the piece I wrote after the Justice Tahaliyani judgement in 2010:

On the day of the verdict, a large advertisement with a red background gave the summons to an audience to watch the "non-stop live coverage” of the Kasab court conviction. The media’s role in making this the ‘biggest terrorist attack’ has to be taken into account.

That Kasab would be convicted was a foregone conclusion. That he will keep two nations on edge is also known. That it will feed a media frenzy that has been going on since November 26, 2008, is the story that will not be told, because the storytellers are the ones who need to be made answerable.


Why was the media not held culpable when reports during the attack clearly mentioned that Kasab’s leaders were monitoring the whole action on television? “Fauj aa rahi hai, dekhte raho... cover karo...” referring to the arrival of commandos. These guys who kept up a battle for 60 hours had to be given a blow-by- blow account by their bosses about the arrival of commandos? It begs the question – who did they think the gun-battles were with?

The electronic media had wanted to transform themselves into heroes, not realising that they were exposing the citizens to further damage. No TV channel had captured an image of Kasab. They merely replayed the same pictures, making it seem as though there was new fire, another gunshot at the landmark hotel site which they had converted into a war zone.

Even worse has been the insensitivity that they managed to camouflage with superficial concern. One channel had declared last year to be the year of the Liberal Muslim.

They need a totem and they found it in the youngest witness. Here is one report:

‘Ajmal Kasab and his cohorts may have shaken almost the entire city during those dark days at the end of November in 2008, but a young girl held her nerve and nailed him in court six months later when she identified him as one of the CST attackers. “Kasab should be hanged. When I identified him and narrated the incident to the court, Kasab didn’t dare look at me. I do not fear anything and will stand with the prosecution till Kasab is punished,’’ said the girl, who is now 11 years old. “You can click my photo and show my face in the paper. I don’t fear anyone”.’


This sort of soap opera bravado merely makes her a pawn in the larger game. There is no excuse for what happened, and nothing can take away from the girl’s suffering. She was a victim. Now she is being victimised in other ways.

In the run-up to the day of judgement she said, “I do not want people to become a victim of terror. I will join an English-medium school, study hard and get into the police force. I want to end terrorism and hatred. I want peace everywhere.” I wonder who her handlers are.

It is unlikely that Kasab will be hanged. This will give an opportunity for those who had never seen blood to come forward to seek justice. The 26/11 industry is a flourishing business. We had the case of the NRI who even went on to get an award for bravery by lying about his role in saving people. He managed to collect funds for rehabilitating victims when all he and a few others had done was managed to scale down the windows of the Taj Mahal Hotel.

Such has become the face of terrorism as understood by the urban elite and consolidated by a shameless media.


- - -

The following are extracts from the SC report on Role of the media:



402. Before parting with the transcripts, we feel compelled to say a few words about the way the terrorist attacks on Taj Hotel, Hotel Oberoi and Nariman House were covered by the mainstream, electronic media and shown live on the TV screen. From the transcripts, especially those from Taj Hotel and Nariman House, it is evident that the terrorists who were entrenched at those places and more than them, their collaborators across the border were watching the full show on TV. In the transcripts there are many references to the media reports and the visuals being shown on the TV screen. The collaborators sitting in their hideouts across the border came to know about the appellant being caught alive from Indian TV: they came to know about the killing of high ranking police officers also from Indian TV. At one place in the transcript, the collaborators and the terrorists appear to be making fun of the speculative report in the media that the person whose dead body was found in Kuber was the leader of the terrorist group whom his colleagues had killed for some reason before leaving the boat



56. At another place in the transcript the collaborators tell the terrorists in Taj Hotel that the dome at the top (of the building) had caught fire. The terrorists holed up in some room were not aware of this. The collaborators further advise the terrorists that the stronger they make the fire the better it would be for them

57. At yet another place the terrorists at Hotel Taj tell the collaborators that they had thrown a grenade. The Collaborators reply, “the sound of the grenade has come, they have shown the grenade, the explosion has taken place, people are wounded”

58. At yet another place the collaborators tell the terrorists at Hotel Oberoi that the troops were making their position very strong on the roof of the building

59. At yet another place the collaborators tell the terrorists at Taj Hotel the exact position taken by the policemen (close to a building that belonged to the navy but was given to the civilians) and from where they were taking aim and firing at them (the terrorists) and advised them the best position for them to hit back at those policemen.

60 There are countless such instances to show that the collaborators were watching practically every movement of the security forces that were trying to tackle the terrorists under relentless gun fire and throwing of grenades from their end.

404. In these appeals, it is not possible to find out whether the security forces actually suffered any casualty or injuries on account of the way their operations were being displayed on the TV screen. But it is beyond doubt that the way their operations were freely shown made the task of the security forces not only exceedingly difficult but also dangerous and risky.

406. The shots and visuals that were shown live by the TV channels could have also been shown after all the terrorists were neutralized and the security operations were over. But, in that case the TV programmes would not have had the same shrill, scintillating and chilling effect and would not have shot up the TRP ratings of the channels. It must, therefore, be held that by covering live the terrorists attack on Mumbai in the way it was done, the Indian TV channels were not serving any national interest or social cause. On the contrary they were acting in their own commercial interests putting the national security in jeopardy.

407. It is in such extreme cases that the credibility of an institution is tested. The coverage of the Mumbai terror attack by the mainstream electronic media has done much harm to the argument that any regulatory mechanism for the media must only come from within.

 - - -

Images: Boston, Deccan Chronicle, The Hindu

53 comments:

  1. 2012 is indeed the year of the liberal Muslim, because that Christian girl in Pakistan is still alive!

    ReplyDelete
  2. Free and dimaghloose,

    Give it a fucking rest will you?

    ReplyDelete
  3. @ Merium,

    :) Your comment does not add to the discussion. Please be more elaborate. Be not afraid! I do not summarily behead blasphemers!

    ReplyDelete
  4. Dimaghloose: And your comments did? :)

    People who summarily behead blasphemers are not known to be afraid, don't worry on that count :)

    Us Mussalmans are doers while you Hindus are neutered bemoaners :) History happens TO YOU. WE create it. C'est la vie! :)

    Watch your neck! We're coming for you! AGAIN! It was great fun subjugating you guys during the Mughal(Golden) era and then carving Pakistan AND Bangladesh out of you :)

    I know the British did it too, but somehow you're just not bitter about that haina? I mean how can you be, they're so fair and tall! The Mughal era and Pakistan are easier to hate because we look and sound so similar and yet we STILL needed our own space. Bicharay Hindu :/ Everyone just sticks it in and leaves :)

    Farzana: The media in both countries is out of control at this point. I think the Pakistani media is overly critical and sees itself as a kingmaker whereas the Indian media is hyper-nationalistic and largely toes the government line. Both are destructive.

    ReplyDelete
  5. @ Meriam,

    Such a progressive and fruitful discussion! It really helps if blaphemy is not a beheading-worthy offence! :)

    Have your say without trembling and frequently glancing over your shoulder! You don't have to be scared of your countrymen (especially the rose-petal carrying Lahore bar Council) and the rest of the Ulama here! :)

    @ FV,

    Great job you are doing by providing this forum to Mullah-suppressed Muslims! :) Doffing my saffron bandana to you!

    ReplyDelete
  6. >>was great fun subjugating you guys

    they all come looking for an empire but leave with only a religion. must be something in the water ... :)

    ReplyDelete
  7. Hitesh: "they all come looking for an empire but leave with only a religion. must be something in the water"

    Or something about the nature of conquest :) One eventually looses appetite for it/ it becomes untenable.

    Thank you for being normal and civil and understanding :) I really appreciate it.

    ReplyDelete
  8. @ Meriam,

    Why don't you ask your friends from the ulama to be civil towards minorities and (alleged or actual) blasphemers? Maybe as a cascading effect you will start finding me civil too!

    ReplyDelete
  9. F&F:

    If only you had taken some time to discuss some important points made in this piece. But, it did not go with your 'scheme' of how you view me. Just don;t let your blurred vision get in the way.

    Re Meriam's response, I thought she was using sarcasm. Thanks for the doffing of the saffron bandana. See, your head is safe. The Ummah cannot turn a hair.

    PS: Seriously, I have rarely got anti-Hindu comments, even when people did post them.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Meriam:

    The media in both countries is becoming increasingly sado-masochistic.

    It lives in it own world, quite cut off from reality. Unfortunately, it manages to influence those who are the influencers.

    PS: I hope your response to F&F was sarcastic. Just don't call him names. He manages well without it :)

    ReplyDelete
  11. Hitesh:

    They leave with a hybrid religion...

    (PS: Miffed that after your comments on the 'Yes, about me' page, nothing from you about the new look. Am losing it!)

    Meriam:

    Mughals were tall and fair, too. They also created a fair and lovely monument, which gives us revenue till today.

    ReplyDelete
  12. FV,

    QUOTE: "... don;t let your blurred vision get in the way."

    Tunnel vision is not unique to me. But then this is YOUR blog, so I can't really question why you are taking up some subjects and ignoring the rest.
    ----
    QUOTE: ".. I thought she was using sarcasm."

    Bhala uska sarcasm mere sarcasm se safed kaise? How come you noticed one side's sarcasm and not the other side's? Seems I've got to hugely improve my sense of humour to get into the Meriam-FV comedy circus!
    ----
    QUOTE: "...you Hindus are neutered bemoaners.... It was great fun subjugating you guys... Bicharay Hindu... Everyone just sticks it in and leaves..."

    That will really have the (Hindu!) crowd ROFL. Wish I could get so touchingly sarcastic in my replies. Unfortunately, I only seem to manage being communal!
    ----
    Btw I just realised that the liberal Muslim is really rocking this year. The poor Christian girl in Pakistan is not just ALIVE, she is still CHRISTIAN too! (Now, was that sarcastic or communal?)

    ReplyDelete
  13. >>Mughals were tall and fair, too. They also created a fair and lovely monument, which gives us revenue till today.

    Irony is that Mughals(corruption of word Mongols) were actually quite fond of their nomadic life-style; and I read somewhere that most of their emperors (for sure Aurangzeb, who spent most of his life marching up and down the subcontinent) preferred to live in tents (presumably very elaborate and luxurious but still)

    >> nothing from you about the new look

    Oh I certainly like it and I thought I already up-voted it!

    You can tell I have been reading reddit.com little too much lately :)

    You are not losing it, I am just trying learn to chill and be a good listener :)

    ReplyDelete
  14. Dimaghloose: "Why don't you ask your friends from the ulama to be civil towards minorities and (alleged or actual) blasphemers?"

    Why don't you worry about the plight of untouchables in YOUR country? When you've singlehandedly eradicated THAT social evil then come and talk to me.

    Who do you think got her freed on bail btw? Who came forward as a witness against the cleric? Yes, dimaghloose, they were Muslims too. Some of them were even secularists!

    My friends in the ulema are wondering how often you worship rats at the rat temple and whether you like to bathe in and drink room temperature cow piss or cold cow piss?

    "Maybe as a cascading effect you will start finding me civil too!"

    Oh I doubt that :) You're the type that always finds something to be displeased with.

    Have you noticed Hitesh doesn't seem to require a prereq for decency? :) People at peace with themselves are not weighed down by history. Empathizing with someone else does not make you smaller. Om Shanti Om.


    Farzana: "It lives in it own world, quite cut off from reality. Unfortunately, it manages to influence those who are the influencers."


    I Don't agree a 100% with this statement. I think media influence is somewhat exaggerated. People watch what they want to watch which is often garbage. The ratings for garbage are highest and therefore the media will produce more garbage.


    "The media in both countries is becoming increasingly sado-masochistic"


    It's a pity they'd rather follow fox news in terms of style/content rather than PBS or CBC.


    "I hope your response to F&F was sarcastic."


    OFCOURSE it was! And facetious too but he's so crazy he doesnt get it!


    "Mughals were tall and fair, too. They also created a fair and lovely monument, which gives us revenue till today."


    I know I know. Infact I wrote on this blog last year in response to (surprise surprise) caged and dimaghloose, that if the Mughal era was so bad and if history had to be rewritten then the Taj should be the first thing to be erased.


    Back to dimaghloose: "But then this is YOUR blog, so I can't really question why you are taking up some subjects and ignoring the rest."


    THATS RIGHT! I'm shocked you actually realize the fact that this IS INDEED her blog since YOU post as often as she does! If this amount of interaction were taking place in the real world she'd have a case for harrassment against you.

    What you and ONLY you see as selectivism on Farzanas part is just her writing about whatever she feels most compelled to write about. It will never sync completely with what YOU want and it is absurd to want that anyway.


    "Btw I just realised that the liberal Muslim is really rocking this year. The poor Christian girl in Pakistan is not just ALIVE, she is still CHRISTIAN too! (Now, was that sarcastic or communal?)"


    C O M M U N A L! (And quite lame) You are ACTUALLY bigoted thats why your "sarcasm" don't work. My biggest problem with you is your stubborn refusal to take anything farzana or anyone remotely Muslim says at FACE VALUE. We're always fighting an uphill battle against your bigotry. The next time you want to rage against the mullahs, look in the mirror. There. is. no. difference.

    ReplyDelete
  15. F&F:

    It is my blog, but just fyi, there are more subjects dealt with than you can apparently handle.

    I posted your response.

    I could be wrong, but from Meriam's comments earlier, I did not sense a communal streak. With you, it has been different simply because whatever I write about, you make it sound like it's some jihad. Take this piece. Think about it.

    Have appreciated your sarcasm in the past past and responded in kind. You missed it?!

    ReplyDelete
  16. Meriam:

    People may switch off the "garbage", but they become the visible faces. They become the words people hang on to. Not many think things through.

    Re. The Taj Mahal, I had written a piece about it, but the stupid emails continue to date on what lies beneath. Proves the point that they will target only that which won't affect them monetarily. Communalism disappears.

    And now...

    I know what you are saying to F&F, and agree with a certain POV.

    However, let us not drag in Hindu beliefs, temples etc in personal interactions even if the provocation is there.



    ReplyDelete
  17. Hitesh:

    Indeed, the Mughals did walk a lot. Tents were probably a need since they were on the move. Aurangzeb was known to be austere, though.

    Thanks...I did not get that thumbs-up on the blog look then. Deir aaye durust aaye!

    ReplyDelete
  18. "However, let us not drag in Hindu beliefs, temples etc in personal interactions even if the provocation is there."


    I try hard not to. Hardly ever comment on anything. But he's REALLY quite obnoxious and I'd had enough. Everyone's got a limit to what they'll tolerate.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Being born in a given religion is not a choice, but being fundamentalist is:

    Afghanistan during its renaissance years ...

    http://www.retronaut.co/2010/10/once-upon-a-time-in-afghanistan/

    Afghanistan now,

    http://apps.facebook.com/theguardian/world/2012/sep/06/afghanistan-attack-female-actors

    This makes the choice very stark, isn't it?

    I thought difference between "loving one's culture and religion to suffocating people with it" would be relatively easy to tell.

    ReplyDelete
  20. It's funny how Farzana displays her cognitive dissonance by conjuring up sarcasm in Meriam's retort to F&F when it was really a hateful outburst.
    I am sure Farzana wouldn’t extend the same to a Hindu because consciously or unconsciously like Meriam's later justification shows it is morally sanctioned and justified by the “religion of peace” and internalized by the followers that it is not their own fault but they were driven to violence and extremism by others.

    ReplyDelete
  21. ....And Meriam your gloating about subjugating Hindus and sticking it to them is quiet ironic when you are the progeny of the very Hindus who were subjugated and raped by “us Mussalmans”. With Pakistanis you are not sure whether to pity them or laugh at their predicament.

    ReplyDelete
  22. FV,

    Was a little busy and couldnt respond to Meriam's subtle and sensitive sarcasms in time. I happily notice that one thing she hasn't been short of is responses!

    ********

    Meriam,

    QUOTE: "Why don't you worry about the plight of untouchables in YOUR country?"

    Untouchability is now illegal in India and the so-called Atrocities Act has the potential to make a charged person's life a living hell. I personally feel that such safeguards are necessary in a deeply casteist Hindu society until a real change of minds comes about. I do not believe in caste and fully support all measures that can possibly lead to tend of this discriminatory institution.

    At the same time, I remain a proud Hindu.

    NOW: Show me one Muslim who can say the same things about either the blasphemy laws, or death penalty for conversion out of Islam, or about the religious apartheid in Meccah (Dogs and non-Muslims not allowed! Stated in Meccah, unstated in many other places!). That will be true comparison.
    ---
    QUOTE: "People at peace with themselves are not weighed down by history."

    Go tell that to the peaceful activists who come across the border into J&K, carrying peaceful AK-47s and to those in Pak who hail them as Mujahids and martyrs. Go tell that to the members of Lahore Bar Council (among others) who showered rose petals on a peace activist in jail for Islamic murder.

    And yes, go tell that to the ungrateful Pakistani Hindus who refuse to shed the burden of history and convert peacefully to Islam, instead leaving for India.
    ---
    QUOTE: "YOU post as often as she does!"

    No I don't. Ask FV, it is her regular complaint that I comment selectively.
    ---
    QUOTE: "We're always fighting an uphill battle against your bigotry"

    Try fighting against your own community's Islam-or-death bigotry first. When you win that battle, you will realise that the other battles need not be fought at all.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Meriam:

    I know. But now someone else is there...cup runneth over...

    Anon:

    Even Houdini would not be able to conjure up a rabbit from someone's hat that is miles away, and even if he did it would be a matter of conjecture. By believing I can do so you legitimise a doubt.

    I'd be surprised that if Meriam has internalised her religion so much that she can cause e-violence to someone who does not shirk from a little e-bloodshed himself.

    I think I have been fair, but I can be prejudiced too. Aren't you? Pity. You will be stuck with port and never experience the pleasure of a fine Rosé.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Hitesh:

    I thought difference between "loving one's culture and religion to suffocating people with it" would be relatively easy to tell.

    Kabhi pyaar kuchch zyaada badh jaata hai!

    F&F:

    Why do you want to go to all the way to Mecca? I offer this space to stone the devil. (Er...I needn't even offer!)

    ReplyDelete
  25. FV,

    Is it obligatory in Islam that one going to Meccah must 1. Be Muslim 2. Agree to Stone the Devil 3. Internalise an Eternal Jehad against Infidels?

    I am certain it is not. But the murderous mobs like the ones seen in Bengazi and Azad Maidan seem to believe so. And the ones not part of those mobs are scared p*gsh*t to open their halal mouths!

    ReplyDelete
  26. F&F: "Untouchability is now illegal in India and the so-called Atrocities Act has the potential to make a charged person's life a living hell."

    So what? Laws mean nothing unless they're implemented indiscriminately and vigilantly. Suicide is illegal in India as well no? Farmers appear not to give a shit and continue to kill themselves in the thousands.

    Was Gujrat legal btw? Don't know how that happened in shiny, lawful India. 2 3 thousand dead Muslims: OOPS!

    "At the same time, I remain a proud Hindu."

    Good for you :) It is very interesting that you can disavow such an INTEGRAL part of your religion and still remain a proud Hindu, yet the same leniency/flexibility cannot be extended to a Muslim and his/her religion :) It is perfectly rational and believable that a Hindu can have the sensitivity and intelligence to think about his/her religion and decide that some parts are harder to follow than others but a Muslim is not capable of doing the same. Interesting :)

    I would say I am a happy but lazy Muslim more than a proud one. Pride, unless it is in ones children is invariably ugly.

    "Show me one Muslim who can say the same things about either the blasphemy laws, or death penalty for conversion out of Islam,"

    If you sincerely believe that ALL 180 million Pakistanis support the blasphemy laws, WHICH BTW ARE A BRITISH INHERITANCE (the irony is lost on the fanatics) then please go ahead and continue to make a fool of yourself. I will not stand in your way but I WILL draw as much attention as I can towards your ridiculous assertions so that more people can laugh at you.

    You're very fond of mentioning the Lahore bar council and it's showering of rose petals on Mumtaz Qadri, but then suddenly your infamous selective memory kicks into gear and allows you to forget the fact that Mumtaz Qadri was sentenced to death for murdering Salman Taseer and *drum roll*, Salman Taseer was murdered for opposing the blasphemy laws. There's your "one Muslim" at least.

    "No I don't. Ask FV, it is her regular complaint that I comment selectively."

    I said you post OFTEN. Farzana says you post SELECTIVELY. Theres a difference but it's ok. I agree with her. You post often, selectively. Take THIS article for christs sake (nice neutral religious figure I picked), it's about the INDIAN medias coverage of the 26/11 attacks and YOU turned it into a diatribe against Muslim/Islam/Pakistan. You do this relentlessly. ANYTHING POLITICAL Farzana posts is anti-Hindu, pro-Muslim simply because she has a Muslim name. Apparently the only acceptable Indian Muslims are the ones like SRK and Amir khan. The kind who stay out of politics, marry Hindu women, drink alcohol, don't pray. Their Muslimness is limited to their names. They are good because they know their place as entertaining monkeys. Farzana hasn't learnt this lesson therefore she and others like her will continue to be taunted.

    Ajeeb kissam ki equality hai India mein.

    Hum Pakistani's jantay hain equality aik bari mushkil aur elusive cheez hoti hai. Shayad issileeyay koi laws nahi change kar saktay. Kiya faida? Tumko bohuth taqleef hoti hai jab Hindus Pakistan mein harrass hotay hain, humein uss waqt bhi taqleef hoti aur tab bhi jab shias koh bus pe se utar kar, line se khara kar ke marra jata hai. Kiss kiss ka rona roein? We don't even spare ourselves.


    "When you win that battle, you will realise that the other battles need not be fought at all."

    You mean the traps you lay with provocative statements? Yeah no, I'll always fight those :) Except when I choose to ignore your ignorance :)


    Just generally: How do you compare the Mughal era in India to the American slave trade, South african apartheid and the treatment of Jews in Hitlers germany? Where do the Mughals stand on a scale of 1-10. 1 being equivalent to hitler and 10 being not so bad after all?

    ReplyDelete
  27. Meriam,

    Thanks for taking time off to reply. You could afford to, perhaps because you do not pray five times!! Just joking!
    -----
    QUOTE: "... such an INTEGRAL part of your religion"

    Firstly, caste system in its present form is a total distortion of teachings of Hinduism. It has no religious sanction anywhere. And even if some tinpot book were to justify it, it is humanly not possible to condone it. THEREFORE, I feel ashamed that this evil is passed off in the name of Hinduism.

    Secondly, if you knew Hinduism even 5%, you wouldn't make such an ignorant statement. Hinduism goes to great lengths to accomodate divergent viewpoints. It does not propagate beheading of people because they expressed a different viewpoint or suggested a discussion on religious beliefs. Hindutva, which takes a more rigid and combative view, is merely a response to the bloodthirsty Islamic onslaught, one of the many forms that Hindusim has taken under the circumstances. The "bloody borders of Islam" have, however, been so ever since the birth of the religion, and do not show any sign of change. A matter of pride for the believers, perhaps?
    -----
    Mr Mumtaz was punished because 1. He was identified as a killer. 2. He surrendered. He was NOT punished because he brought bad name to Islam or went against the Islamic principle of "There is no compulsion on religion". (A suspected Hindutvawadi is quoting the Quran! Kudos to FV and her blog!). So the gloating is really out of place here. I note that even you have pointedly avoided agreeing with me on the blasphemy, conversion and death penalty issues.
    ----
    I notice with amusement the picturesque term you use for Muslim actors. But that be aside for the moment. I am sorry to shatter your assumption that the actors are somehow 'acceptable' to me because they, well, act. Their talent or lack thereof is an entirely different issue and does not take away the centrality of the Islamic hatred for non-Muslims.

    The genial, spiritual peace activists in front of the USA consulate in Bengazi would serve as proof.
    ------
    QUOTE: "Hum Pakistani's jantay hain equality aik bari mushkil aur elusive cheez hoti hai."

    May God bless you and your high ground. The quest for true equality is unique neither to Islam nor to Pakistan. It is definitely an illusive concept. Therefore, the Islamic notion of the believers' automatic superiority to non-believers is a humungous fraud as well, whether Quranically approved or not.
    ------
    QUOTE: "..Kiss kiss ka rona roein?"

    That was poignant and touched a cord somewhere. Honestly. Hope your tribe thrives in that wretched country that's trying hard to justify its obsession with religion for six decades.
    ------
    India as a whole has, mercifully, not seen the kind of blind, barbaric violence that Europe, middle East and America have gone through. Except partition perhaps. As late as in early 20th century, lynch mobs in USA were dragging blacks (sometimes whites too) out of police stations and killing them. However, the unspeakable Islamic atrocities on Hindu community in Indian subcontinent lack parallel in history. ("Everyone just sticks it in and leaves", - your words!). I can quote countless examples. Recorded ones, not the vague VHP type ramblings. But I don't want to be accused of e-harassment by either you or FV!

    Are you sure use of scales like 1-10 is halaal? Then Let us just compare the tiny Gujarat riots to The Holocaust and call the Indian Muslims crybabies. Ok with you?

    What about Rushdie's book or Bacile's movie or Taslima's novel which did not technically kill anyone, or preach any kind of killing?

    ReplyDelete
  28. Meriam,

    Hold a sec, please! We have to be sure of who is making a fool of oneself. The blasphemy law handed down by the British is identical in India and Pak. It applies uniformly to all religions and does not have provision for a death penalty. If that law were in force in Pak as well, we would only be discussing freedom of expression and desirability of such laws, perhaps over a haram coffee in a Karachi cafe. Zia ul Haq ammended this law and added Islam-specific sections which invite death penalty. Jihad has never been the same again!

    Baharo fool barsao, mera Mumtaz aya hai...

    ReplyDelete
  29. >>caste system in its present form is a total distortion of teachings of Hinduism. It has no religious sanction anywhere

    Yes, there is. Manusmriti and that is why ambedkar was burning it and RSS likes to preach it.

    >>Hindutva, which takes a more rigid and combative view, is merely a response to the bloodthirsty Islamic onslaught, one of the many forms that Hindusim has taken under the circumstances.

    I am generally a very civilized person but she made me do it, alright then.

    >> Islamic hatred for non-Muslims.

    what do you call a religion that defines itself as "anything not originating from middle east".

    >>The quest for true equality is unique neither to Islam nor to Pakistan.

    but some have tried and sacrificed for it. it's like egg and ham breakfast. chicken is 'involved' and pig is 'committed'.

    >>Hope your tribe thrives in that wretched country

    aise doston ki duaon se to dushmano
    ki baddua manzoor

    >>lynch mobs in USA were dragging blacks (sometimes whites too) out of police stations and killing them.

    have you heard of khap panchayats?

    >>unspeakable Islamic atrocities on Hindu community in Indian subcontinent lack parallel in history.

    let's see. anywhere from 50 to 70 million dead during world war 2.

    Russia prevented Hitler's true-blooded Aryans wielding Swastikas from reaching India and Brits held the peaceful Japanese at Burma.

    Most of the Central Asia including Persia razed to ground by Chengiz Khan during middle ages. India was spared of his wrath because brunt of his attack was borne by the Islamic populations of Central Asia including Afghanistan and Pakistan.

    or are we talking about a very specific part of history with very specific villains?

    OK, go on ...

    ReplyDelete
  30. (continued)

    Meriam,

    Hold a sec, please! We have to be sure of who is making a fool of oneself. The blasphemy law handed down by the British is identical in India and Pak. It applies uniformly to all religions and does not have provision for a death penalty. If that law were in force in Pak as well, we would only be discussing freedom of expression and desirability of such laws, perhaps over a haram coffee in a Karachi cafe. Zia ul Haq ammended this law and added Islam-specific sections which invite death penalty. Jihad has never been the same again!

    Baharo fool barsao, mera Mumtaz aya hai...

    ReplyDelete
  31. Free and Footloose16/09/2012, 00:46

    Hitesh:

    Thanks for finding time to make casual, derisive, off-the-cuff remarks. Hope you are more elaborate and deliberate the next time around.

    ----

    If you are talking about Varnashrama system, then I would say, at the risk of being politically incorrect, that today's caste system is a distortion of ideal Varnashrama. It was not based on the accident of birth but on the Sanskar received by a person and the choices made by him/her. The Varna was not an open-ended system. A person could enter and exit based on his/her qualifications and choices. The watertight caste system of today, with hundreds of caste groups raising a raucous din for crumbs and doles on offer has nothing to do with Hinduism.

    -----

    I am happy that you have, for the sake of argument, accepted the hypothesis "she made me do it (burqa and all)"!

    -----

    Yes I know about Khap Panchayats and other forms of mob justice that rule the roost over large parts of Asia. But we still do not have newspapers covering the killings as live events, photographs of the mob lynchings being sold as souvenirs and police still unable to find a single witness. That was US of A once upon a time!

    ------
    We are not talking World Wars here. I risk repetition and say that should you want to show up a world war to trivialize Hindu sufferings at the hands of Islamic zealots, then allow me to bring up The Holocaust to show the relatively minor nature of 2002 Gujarat disturbances! Do we agree?

    We indeed are talking about a specific part of history. The villains are specific too, but the sekulaars argue that they are creation of a communal imagination.

    ----
    It may come as a surprise to you, but Pakistan did not exist at the time of Chengiz Khan. Even Afghanistan was more a socio-political entity than a political one.

    ReplyDelete
  32. F&F:

    I had to copy-paste your above response to Hitesh as your original one got deleted due to a sleight of hand while clicking.

    For info: Please direct ire towards F&F!



    ReplyDelete
  33. >>today's caste system is a distortion of ideal Varnashrama

    burqa were meant to protect bikini-clad women from cell-phone camera wielding creeps but you know these things get misinterpreted over time.

    >>accepted the hypothesis ...

    do you sarcasm, much?

    >>police still unable to find a single witness. That was US of A once upon a time!

    and this is India now:

    http://punjabnewsline.com/content/hooda-backs-khap-panchayats-same-gotra-marriages/20928

    Atrocities in Gujarat were motivated by the same fear and fanaticism as Holocaust or massacres in Balkan; just the scale is different.

    >> creation of a communal imagination

    Some day Jurassic Park technologies can be employed to revive the Moghuls; until then ...

    >>Pakistan did not exist at the time of Chengiz Khan. Even Afghanistan was more a socio-political entity than a political one

    I have read somewhere that word Hindu is a creation of Arabs who came across river Sindhu and called the people living across that river as Hindus (Arabic corruption).

    So, I guess Hindus also did not exist until the Arabs named them ...

    kinda makes sense

    ReplyDelete
  34. FV,

    Thanks for the help.

    A correction in my comment above:

    The word 'NOT' is out of place in the sentence "The Varna was not an open-ended system". It should have read Varna WAS an open ended system.

    Sorry.

    ReplyDelete
  35. FV,

    Sleights of hand come rather naturally to the sekulaars! I know you saw that coming! :)

    ReplyDelete
  36. Hitesh,

    My loss entirely that you are hard-pressed for time and cannot write except in broken, sullen sentences.

    Bless you, until then! :)

    ReplyDelete
  37. Hitesh,

    By your own logic, the Mughal atrocities were 'inspired' by the same barbaric contempt for the 'other' (jews / non Muslims) and the same baseless theory of one belief system being superior to other (Aryan / Muslim).

    Do you have the courage to say "yes"? It falls within your word limit!!

    ReplyDelete
  38. F&F: Last response because I do not have Farzanas infinite patience, the enthusiasm to continue butting heads with an idiot and the desire to keep going round in circles :)

    "caste system in its present form is a total distortion of teachings of Hinduism."

    I am not an expert on Hinduism and I suspect neither are you. Hitesh disagrees and millions of your compatriots obviously think otherwise. Still, if I accept your assertion that caste is indeed a distortion, then would you be so kind as to accept that distortions can occur in other religions as well or do the rules conveniently change when talking about Islam?

    " It does not propagate beheading of people because they expressed a different viewpoint or suggested a discussion on religious beliefs."

    Islam is a lot more than what you want it to be darling. The Islam that I've been taught isnt urging me to behead you, although the Gemini in me definitely wants to punch you ;)

    "Hindutva, which takes a more rigid and combative view, is merely a response to the bloodthirsty Islamic onslaught"

    Ummm....you ARE AWARE that the "Islamic onslaught" ended around 200 years ago right?? Which onslaught are you fighting now? The Khan onslaught at the box office?? I'll fight with you on that! Well I guess SRK is ok...but Amir and Salman = *vomit*

    "Mr Mumtaz was punished because 1. He was identified as a killer. 2. He surrendered. He was NOT punished because he brought bad name to Islam or went against the Islamic principle of "There is no compulsion on religion"."

    You are such an odd little man F&F. Kissi tarha bhi chaen nai hai :) Contrary to what you think, Pakistan is NOT under sharia law, so Qadri SHOULD NOT have been punished for insulting Islam anyway. He is a criminal and was treated as such regardless of what him and his supporters think.

    "So the gloating is really out of place here."

    *Sigh* there was no gloating you fool, I stated a F A C T. *Skakes her head*

    "I note that even you have pointedly avoided agreeing with me on the blasphemy, conversion and death penalty issues."

    Blasphemy laws are abused. I've never denied it. I dont know what you mean by death penalty and as for conversions, a friend of a friend is married to a Hindu. No conversions were required. Deepak perwani is one of the most successful fashion designers in Pakistan. He's gay and happily fucking Muslim men. No conversions required there either. If you mean conversion OUT of Islam then I'll use the quote you did even though I think it is THE MOST misinterpreted quote in the Quran: there is no compulsion in religion. You can put the beheadings down to distortions :)

    "I am sorry to shatter your assumption that the actors are somehow 'acceptable' to me because they, well, act."

    No, I said they were acceptable to you because they are not involved in the woes of their community :)

    "the centrality of the Islamic hatred for non-Muslims."

    Every religion has certain codes of conduct. Certain "thou shall nots", marrying non-muslims may be of these. I am not sure whether marrying a non-muslim is strictly forbidden or not preferred but acceptable.

    I hate you not because you're a Hindu. I hate you because you're an instigator :)

    ReplyDelete
  39. "The genial, spiritual peace activists in front of the USA consulate in Bengazi would serve as proof."


    They have every right to be peaceful :) If people want to exercise their right to freedom of speech (Which in most cases is just plain old hate speech) then they should be prepared for the consequences. Freedom of speech sounds great. It's just that most people do not have the sensitivity, restraint or the balls to accept reponsibility for their words. It is open season on Muslims and constant provocations WILL eventually result in violence. You are not stupid. You know. A few years ago there was a pride parade somewhere in the U.S. and apparently there were some careless depictions of your Gods on toilet seats or t-shirts and apparently feelings were hurt. You can say but nobody was killed. True but Benghazis just come out of 42 years of dictatorship. There is no security for anyone. No one can say for sure who killed those Americans: fanatics or criminals.

    "Therefore, the Islamic notion of the believers' automatic superiority to non-believers is a humungous fraud as well,"

    EVERY religion (club) is the same. Thats kind of the point. In Pakistan, going to Grammar or the American school makes you better than everyone else.

    "Hope your tribe thrives in that wretched country that's trying hard to justify its obsession with religion for six decades"

    You can call us wretched all you want baby, we're here, we're a little bad-ass, and we 'aint goin' no where :)

    Things are changing (well at least theres a realisation that it was a huge mistake) with regards to using religion as a foreign policy tool thank God, and hopefully in another six decades we'll be free of the hideous legacy Zia's burdened us with. InshAllah. You'd better change with the times too or you'll just end up an angry, prejudiced old man with no Farzana to take it out on.

    "India as a whole has, mercifully, not seen the kind of blind, barbaric violence that Europe, middle East and America have gone through."

    Mughal mercy? :)

    "However, the unspeakable Islamic atrocities on Hindu community in Indian subcontinent lack parallel in history. "

    I KNEW you'd say this but somehow I can't quite believe that you actually did. You ARE AWARE that to most people the first thing when you say India would conjure up images of the Taj right?? How have you proud Hindu, allowed such an association to form?! It's so shameful! It's like if Germanys Flag bore the Swastika or the American flag was a Confederate one. I urge you to protest and start a petition asking for the demolition of the Taj and all other Mughal nishanis. ALL Mughal architecture, poetry, cuisine, clothing must be expunged!

    If Islam/Muslims are so unbearably bad then please do something about it or shutup. We'd all just like to move on with our lives without hearing your snide remarks on every post. Ridiculous little man.

    ReplyDelete
  40. "But I don't want to be accused of e-harassment by either you or FV!"

    Oh please, it's never held you back before.

    "Then Let us just compare the tiny Gujarat riots to The Holocaust and call the Indian Muslims crybabies. Ok with you?"

    It wouldn't be PC you know? I mean, India shining and all...how would you advertise it to the business or tourism industries? "come for the color, stay for the tiny riots"?? Work on it.

    "What about Rushdie's book or Bacile's movie or Taslima's novel which did not technically kill anyone, or preach any kind of killing?"

    The prophet (pbuh) in his time was taunted and harrassed. Had garbage thrown at him as he walked down the street but he forgave them. Muslims have forgotten his kindness. Rushdies book or that one line was offensive. Did he deserve to have a fatwa on his head? According to me no. I dislike him for what he wrote but it is up to God to decide what to do with him.

    Bacile's movie/Mark steins articles HAVE killed. Anders Breivik cited Steins articles as a source of inspiration. When Steins hate speech was printed by Macleans and Muslims complained and there were debates, people who supported Stein would say no Muslims have been killed/harmed because of this article. I guess blood always needs to be spilt first. I wonder if those people are satiated and quiet now.



    ReplyDelete
  41. Meriam,

    You said it was your last response and then went on to key in two more comments - make that commentaries!

    No compalints, though. I am actually happy that you have chosen to engage. I am typing my response. Will post once ready.

    And once approved by FV, of course! :)

    ReplyDelete
  42. FV,

    Hope you are enjoying this.. er, rooster-fight. A rooster that bleeds to death is always halaal, even if s/he had a Hindu name.
    ---------
    Meriam,

    QUOTE: "... would you be so kind as to accept that distortions can occur in other religions..?"

    Yes I would be, provided it is accepted as such. At the moment, the issues of blasphemy, conversion and death penalty for apostacy seem to have an unchallenged majority approval in Islam unlike caste system which no Hindu has the courage to justify any more.

    Admitting this does not make me a lesser Hindu.
    ------
    QUOTE: "... you ARE AWARE that the "Islamic onslaught" ended around 200 years ago right?"

    You too are aware that
    1. Gujarat riots ended a decade ago and havent recurred since.
    2. USA exited Iraq nearly a year ago. The 'crusade' has ceased, so to speak, unless the Mohammed film is assigned the same offence quotient as drone-bombing of towns! The enlightened, peaceful response of the Ummah definitely suggests so.
    3. Rushdie hasn't written a Prophet-insulting book for more than two decades.
    4. No mosque has been pullled down by saffron mobs after 1992.

    Time to have a great group embrace at Meccah, with non-Muslims joining in?
    ------
    QUOTE: "...Qadri SHOULD NOT have been punished for insulting Islam anyway. He is a criminal and was treated as such.."

    Hello ma'm, are you aware that the preamble to Pak constitution says "No law repugnant to the spirit of Islam shall be passed"? Time to know your own country!
    ------
    QUOTE: "I dont know what you mean by death penalty.."

    Why don't you ask FV? By now, she can recite my comments verbatim even before I type them!
    ------
    QUOTE: "the actors.. are not involved in the woes of their community"

    I suppose your definition of woes only includes Kashmir, palestine, Rushdie's novel, Bacile's film, Babri demolition, Gujarat riots, Assam refugee issues and perhaps the proposed Uniform Civil Code.

    Let me add to it: Corruption, caste violence, economic disparity, urbanisation, street crime, water and power shortages, anti-migrant sentiment, collapsing public transport, lack of oscar awards, rise in sexual and violent content in films, rising star salaries, black money in elections, fragmentation of polity, big dams, female foeticide, bomb blasts.

    You expect too much from the film stars, o fan! Let them do what they think they are good at.

    by the way, I won't mind if one of the Khans lashes out at the blasphemy laws which are against the spirit of Islam anyway! Distortion?
    ------
    QUOTE: "I am not sure whether marrying a non-muslim is strictly forbidden.."

    Check the website of Pak govt. Safer than asking a Mullah in Peshawar. Too much to ask?
    ------
    QUOTE: " If people want to exercise their right to freedom of speech (Which in most cases is just plain old hate speech) then they should be prepared for the consequences....... It is open season on Muslims.."

    You are touchingly unaware of the irony here! You seem to say that the group which can inflict the brutal-est and most mindless violence gets to define the limits of freedom of speech, is it? Can you see what open season you are inviting?
    ------
    QUOTE: ".. hopefully in another six decades we'll be free of the hideous legacy..You'd better change with the times too.."

    Grateful for the advice, senor! That is what makes Indians and Pakis real bros-at-arms. At the end of the day, we are always there to give each other some good advice!

    ReplyDelete
  43. Meriam,

    QUOTE: "I urge you to protest and start a petition asking for the demolition of the Taj and all other Mughal nishanis.."

    Thanks for the advice again! I too urge you to begin a petition to permit non-Muslims' entry into Meccah. Just find a safe, bomb-proof house, change your name and hire some non-Muslim bodyguards!Correcting distortions can sometimes cause facial and physical distortions to occur! Even in USA/Canada or wherever it is that you live.
    ----
    QUOTE: ".. it's never held you back before"

    Smiley! You wouldn't be able to see comments disallowed by FV, would you?

    ReplyDelete
  44. Meriam,

    QUOTE: "Anders Breivik cited Steins articles as a source of inspiration... people who supported Stein would say no Muslims have been killed/harmed because of this article. I guess blood always needs to be spilt first."

    Nice argument. Only if you remember that WTC bombers (among others) cited Quran as inspiration. Do we apply the same argument here? That nobody will agree to dissect religious books until people spill blood in their names?

    (Splitting this comment simply so that FV can permit the rest of the stuff to be seen, should she disallow this one!)

    ReplyDelete
  45. F&F: Word limit forced me to break my ONE response into three parts. Wasn't a Muslim conspiracy.

    Farzana: Would it be possible to set up a collection of each persons comments under their names on this blog? It would be very interesting (and convenient) to see how peoples responses change or stay the same no matter what.

    ReplyDelete
  46. I am sure there is a lot to discuss, but if anyone here is going to feel victimised about what comment was published and what was not and what will, then it will not work. I will take a call on that.

    Thanks for adding to the discussion, anyway.

    ReplyDelete
  47. FV,

    Hope you are enjoying this.. er, rooster-fight. A rooster that bleeds to death is always halaal, even if s/he had a Hindu name.
    ---------
    Meriam,

    QUOTE: "... would you be so kind as to accept that distortions can occur in other religions..?"

    Yes I would be, provided it is accepted as such. At the moment, the issues of blasphemy, conversion and death penalty for apostasy seem to have an unchallenged majority approval in Islam unlike caste system which no Hindu has the courage to justify any more.

    Admitting this does not make me a lesser Hindu.
    ------
    QUOTE: "... you ARE AWARE that the "Islamic onslaught" ended around 200 years ago right?"

    You too are aware that
    1. Gujarat riots ended a decade ago and havent recurred since.
    2. USA exited Iraq nearly a year ago. The 'crusade' has ceased, so to speak, unless the Mohammed film is assigned the same offence quotient as drone-bombing of towns! The enlightened, peaceful response of the Ummah definitely suggests so.
    3. Rushdie hasn't written a Prophet-insulting book for more than two decades.
    4. No mosque has been pullled down by saffron mobs after 1992.

    Time to have a great group embrace at Meccah, with non-Muslims joining in?
    ------
    QUOTE: "Pakistan is not a Sharia state...Qadri SHOULD NOT have been punished for insulting Islam anyway. He is a criminal and was treated as such.."

    Hello ma'm, are you aware that the preamble to Pak constitution says "No law repugnant to the spirit of Islam shall be passed"? Time to know your own country!
    ------
    QUOTE: "I dont know what you mean by death penalty.."

    Why don't you ask FV? By now, she can recite my comments verbatim even before I type them!
    ------
    QUOTE: "the actors.. are not involved in the woes of their community"

    I suppose your definition of woes only includes Kashmir, palestine, Rushdie's novel, Bacile's film, Babri demolition, Gujarat riots, Assam refugee issues and perhaps the proposed Uniform Civil Code.

    Let me add to it: Corruption, caste violence, economic disparity, urbanisation, street crime, water and power shortages, anti-migrant sentiment, collapsing public transport, lack of oscar awards, rise in sexual and violent content in films, rising star salaries, black money in elections, fragmentation of polity, big dams, female foeticide, bomb blasts.

    You expect too much from the film stars, o fan! Let them do what they think they are good at.

    by the way, I won't mind if one of the Khans lashes out at the blasphemy laws which are against the spirit of Islam anyway! Distortion?
    ------
    QUOTE: "I am not sure whether marrying a non-muslim is strictly forbidden.."

    Check the website of Pak govt. Safer than asking a Mullah in Peshawar. Too much to ask?
    ------
    QUOTE: " If people want to exercise their right to freedom of speech (Which in most cases is just plain old hate speech) then they should be prepared for the consequences....... It is open season on Muslims.."

    You are touchingly unaware of the irony here! You seem to say that the group which can inflict the brutal-est and most mindless violence gets to define the limits of freedom of speech, is it? Can you see what open season you are inviting?
    ------
    QUOTE: ".. hopefully in another six decades we'll be free of the hideous legacy..You'd better change with the times too.."

    Grateful for the advice, senor! That is what makes Indians and Pakis real bros-at-arms. At the end of the day, we are always there to give each other some good advice!

    ReplyDelete
  48. there is much more detailed and reasoned discussion going on here:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/dsblq/does_anyone_know_of_a_good_website_on_sufi/c12mzvx

    and here

    http://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/zztlv/i_am_a_white_english_atheist_and_i_need_help/c699hq6

    if you are so inclined.

    In the end, we all have our preferences and prejudices.

    Live and let live, so much easier said than done.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Meriam:

    It really is not possible for me to collate the comments. But do we need one to call the bluff?

    F&F:

    No. I cannot recite your comments verbatim, just as I cannot recite an religious verses, unless they are composed to music.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Hitesh:

    there is much more detailed and reasoned discussion going on here

    Oh, so this is a place for droppings and promoting sites that just start a debate.

    Do not forget I write original pieces here, and don't just throw bones. Do you recommend this blog at those sites? Are you saying that your contribution here are not been "reasoned" or that of some others?

    I take umbrage because this is bloody hard work, not just an open-ended forum.

    Anyhow, the fact that I let this promo pass should tell you that I am pretty confident about this blog. Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  51. woah, there!!

    Promoting sites? I don't even own the reddit stock!!

    >>Do not forget I write original pieces here, and don't just throw bones

    I have quoted many links and articles in past and never with an intention to disparage the content on this site.

    >>Do you recommend this blog at those sites?

    would be happy to if there was relevance.

    >>Are you saying that your contribution here are not been "reasoned" or that of some others?

    Nowhere near the depths of the links I posted, if you take a chance to just browse.

    >>I take umbrage because this is bloody hard work, not just an open-ended forum.

    where did I or the contents of the link imply that?

    >>Anyhow, the fact that I let this promo pass should tell you that I am pretty confident about this blog. Thank you.

    Oh I finally get it. It is my "detailed and reasoned" remark that got to you.

    The contents of those links don't really belong on general blog posts (can be little dry and academic for general interest) but it might interest those with genuine curiosity.

    I will chalk this up to netiquette faux pas but I am pretty sure I wasn't promoting any particular site just the content that interested me.

    ReplyDelete
  52. FV and Hitesh,

    Hullo, hullo, don't let the greater sekulaar cause be lost in your bickering. Where would I be without shadow enemies like you guys? :)

    ----

    QUOTE: "I take umbrage because this is bloody hard work.."

    I agree wholeheartedly! My comments also are hard work. When they did not get published for a long time (like, 45 minutes) my anger did threaten to mirror the blind Islamic fury at Azad Maidan and Bengazi! But now I know that FV did not mean to blaspheme! May the sekulaar divinities forgive her :)

    ReplyDelete
  53. F&F:

    Never disputed the hard work you and others put in. Some use the hammer, others the chisel. And yet others a needle!

    And just fyi, there is no one "sekulaar" cause.

    Hitesh:

    Exhibit 1:

    {>>Do you recommend this blog at those sites?

    would be happy to if there was relevance.}

    Exhibit 2:

    {>>Are you saying that your contribution here are not been "reasoned" or that of some others?}

    Nowhere near the depths of the links I posted, if you take a chance to just browse.}

    Ghar ki murgi...

    ReplyDelete

Note: only a member of this blog may post a comment.