tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post160388775785600775..comments2023-10-20T21:52:36.752+05:30Comments on Cross Connections: Benazir and Indira as Papa's PuppetsFarzana Verseyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06891229615361937135noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-24524328459909867652007-12-30T14:41:00.000+05:302007-12-30T14:41:00.000+05:30PPP sources, meanwhile, said Benazir Bhutto’s 19-y...<I>PPP sources, meanwhile, said Benazir Bhutto’s 19-year-old son Bilawal Zardari will be elected the new chief of the party on Sunday at a scheduled meeting. The sources said Bhutto’s husband Asif Ali Zardari had turned down the offer to lead the PPP. "Bilawal will be the new chief of the party," a PPP leader told this newspaper from Larkana.</I><BR/><BR/>This news item is not merely to say, I told you so...just wondering whether Pakistani democracy can be steered by a 19-year-old.<BR/><BR/>Salim:<BR/><BR/>Too many comparisons would not have worked, although TV channels here compared it with the Kennedy Curse.<BR/><BR/>As an aside, since you are new here, take a look at my rejoinder to Jemima Khan. http://farzana-versey.blogspot.com/2007/10/rejoinder-to-jemima-khan.html<BR/><BR/>One needs to look at a perspective from where one is standing to where the other is. <BR/><BR/>Circle:<BR/><BR/>FV would not wish to hurt you of all people, but FV also has to say what she has to. My stand has remained unchanged and you will see in the above link that I did strike a fair balance. Wouldn't you prefer that I stayed true to msyelf rather than pretend? This time we will agree to disagree, ok? You be well. And I mean it.<BR/><BR/>Incidentally, when I was young I did think IG had a tremendously charismatic persona and was the best thing to happen to India. One got disillusioned later...<BR/>- - -<BR/><BR/>The editor of The Arab News has written asking me for permission to reproduce this piece. This information is more than a little interesting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-61882653007966282212007-12-30T10:31:00.000+05:302007-12-30T10:31:00.000+05:30BB and Indira Gandhi were both extremely intellige...BB and Indira Gandhi were both extremely intelligent and courageous PMs of subcontinent. I salute both of these ladies for their bravery.<BR/><BR/>This is piece has hurt my feelings and it feels like FV has sprinkled salt on my wounds which are fresh and I find this piece very insensitive and irresponsible.<BR/><BR/>Sorry....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-21090962422870082732007-12-30T05:19:00.000+05:302007-12-30T05:19:00.000+05:30Farzana,What a brilliant article! You have convinc...Farzana,<BR/>What a brilliant article! You have convincingly trashed the convenient resort to dynastic rule by nostalgic and vested interests in both India and Pakistan. By drawing some astonishing parallels, connecting the obvious dots, and then arriving at some very unpredictable conclusions, you have capably presented the case against the seed of political charisma. You have also differentiated between popularity and populism and discouraged us from confusing the two. <BR/><BR/>I would only add that, Farzana, you should include the American experience in this analogy. Whether it's Gandhi or Bhutto, or Kennedy, Bush, or Clinton - the name in itself is no guarantee of future results.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for an presenting a uniquely interesting viewpoint that definitely goes against the grain.<BR/><BR/>Salim.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-70515916236749834722007-12-29T20:10:00.000+05:302007-12-29T20:10:00.000+05:30Thanks for the comments, and I am not going to arg...Thanks for the comments, and I am not going to argue with the different opinions because this is an opinion piece...I only do opinion pieces. <BR/><BR/>However, a few points:<BR/>1. Sensitivity in the present circumstances? To what? A public figure can and will be dissected. I wonder how sensitive it is for people to come up with weird conspiracy theories. Besides, I was told that in the West people do have a tradition of 'celebrating' the person's life. So, what is ok for the westerners and expats, is darn well ok for us...and even if it is not, it is ok by me. It is not like I have dragged her children in and made snide comments. This is analysis...disagreement with it is a prerogative. That's it.<BR/><BR/>2. I have made one set of comparisons; it does not mean the flip side is untrue or has not registered. When I write about Rajiv Gandhi I would discuss the Oedipus Complex.<BR/><BR/>3. I have not compared ZAB and Nehru as politicians at all.<BR/><BR/>On a slightly facetious note...<BR/><BR/>- I don't always like it deep...so this was a bird's eye-View.<BR/>- whatmeworry (if you don't, then why no name?)...the first post was extremely lucid.<BR/>- "Bill’s in the mail." Don't want him. Tom, Dick and Harry are already here.<BR/><BR/>Once again, I value your views, even if I do not agree with some. <BR/><BR/>"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimickry, their passions a quotation."<BR/><BR/>These words of Oscar Wilde apply to the 'characters' I have tried to understand through one particular prism of thought. There are several others...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-75752693454145671802007-12-29T18:49:00.000+05:302007-12-29T18:49:00.000+05:30No truer words were said.[If that were to happen, ...No truer words were said.<BR/><BR/>[If that were to happen, we would have one more “mind-controlled victim” avenging her father’s death and dreaming his dreams. Individual voices in Pakistan are being muffled by echoes of old thoughts.]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-75880999514530831152007-12-29T18:04:00.000+05:302007-12-29T18:04:00.000+05:30Farzana,Benazir was a product of the Simla Confere...Farzana,<BR/><BR/>Benazir was a product of the Simla Conference. I have reason to believe that.<BR/><BR/>That was her first exposure to complicated political issues, war, diplomacy, and towering personalities with Power. That experience when her father took her along at a very young age became embedded in her. <BR/><BR/>Her idols were first her father (who was a charismatic womanizer amongst much else) and Indira Gandhi (who was an elegant blue-blooded princess plus a tyrant plus attracted to playboys), who married Feroze Gandhi (a womanizer) and Benazir modeled her life on these enormously powerful personalities finding the similarities. She identified with these. <BR/><BR/>She was attracted to Zardari (a charismatic womanizer and famous playboy), became a tyrant in her own party (just like her father and Indira), and died violently just as the above two did ... in sheer false bravado that somehow no one could touch them (remember Bhutto's words that Himalayas will shake if they kill me, and Indira's refusal to do away with the Sikh bodyguards after Bhindranwale?).<BR/><BR/>In the end, all of them let down their country, their followers, their responsibilities being incharge of great nations at difficult junctures, all in delusions of self-assumed divine authority over enemies.<BR/><BR/>People much lesser than them killed them all. Very easily. <BR/><BR/>These are the failings of great power and great personalities. The combination is lethal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-20634702558448547162007-12-29T15:24:00.000+05:302007-12-29T15:24:00.000+05:30Farzana... This is an excellent piece, well resear...Farzana... This is an excellent piece, well researched more importantly objective.<BR/><BR/>SK... I tried to open the link but was unable to do so. Would appreciate if you could help me with it.Manzoorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00589645867477976695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-3919338338089436742007-12-29T12:41:00.000+05:302007-12-29T12:41:00.000+05:30Farzana,Being that this is an opinion piece, and g...Farzana,<BR/>Being that this is an opinion piece, and given my lack of knowledge of Indira to compare to Benazir, I will hold back on criticism.<BR/><BR/>***<BR/>To say that Benazir never had it as easy as Indira might not be entirely accurate. Benazir had it quite easy until her father was executed in 1979. When that happened,when she was imprisoned, her life was in turmoil, but to some extent, Benazir had banked upon her father's name. It is evident from some of her interviews that she would have been someone's puppet, in order to survive in politics, not necessarily her Papa's. This is not said in disrespect of the dead. . .Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-72866834751069380572007-12-29T11:19:00.000+05:302007-12-29T11:19:00.000+05:30FV:You have hit the nail on the head. Indira and B...FV:<BR/><BR/>You have hit the nail on the head. Indira and BB can be as similar as they can be. The complexities of democracy, polity and society in respective countries made their actions seem different. At a base level, the comparison is apt and well-put.<BR/>Although, I have my doubts about comparing ZA Bhutto and Nehru.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-80095936653162595592007-12-29T06:50:00.000+05:302007-12-29T06:50:00.000+05:30Two cent reviewThis is a very timely article, howe...Two cent review<BR/>This is a very timely article, however lacks depth while drawing far-reaching conclusions based on analysis not quite borne by historical evidence. Firstly, there is little evidence to support the claim that Z.A. Bhutto "chose his daughter over his sons". There is plenty of evidence as to why Benazir rose to prominence - evoking a Freudian paradigm (in lieu of real evidence) is akin to a psychoanalyst looking for a psycho. Benazir was the oldest of the siblings, Murtaza, her younger brother was far more radical and less prone to the political gerrymandering a prerequisite for any aspiring politician. On the contrary, Benazir played the game well and aligned herself with the PPP leadership even at a very young age. The differences in personality traits will come to bear on their relationships with each other and the manner in which they chose their respective spouses. This disparity will be further amplified after Z. A. Bhutto's execution when Murzata went underground to avenge for his father's death, while Benazir joined "the party" - much to Nusrat Bhutto's chagrin. While offering rudimentary psychoanalysis based on what Freud called the Oepidus Complex vis-à-vis Benazir/Indra choice, no theory is offered as to why the son(s) were not chosen - reverse penis envy or perhaps the womb envy?. As for Indra - there wasn't much of a choice, unless of course Nehru fathered illegitimate children - much to Lord Mountbatten’s' chagrin. If disparagement/glorification of female genitalia are expressions of male fixation and fetishism, reverse must also be true. Bill’s in the mail.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-71510201563494436482007-12-29T05:53:00.000+05:302007-12-29T05:53:00.000+05:30I disagree with the comparison (it appears stretch...I disagree with the comparison (it appears stretched). Benazir never had it as easy as Indira Gandhi. Benazir's struggles were a lot harder and the society in which she struggled was a lot tougher, too. She carried her father's name, of course, but she was her own person who had to grow up quickly after her dad was executed. She was a tenacious and courageous lady. I admire a lot about her. The piece could have been more sensitive under the present circumstances.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-67315383888816739972007-12-29T02:26:00.000+05:302007-12-29T02:26:00.000+05:30FYI, MP3 of Benazir Bhutto's niece, Fatima Bhutto ...FYI, <A HREF="http://server.wnur.org/thisishell/archive/pods/20071124.mp3" REL="nofollow">MP3</A> of Benazir Bhutto's niece, Fatima Bhutto interviewed by Chuck Mertz of <A HREF="http://www.thisishell.net" REL="nofollow"><I>This is Hell</I></A> on November 24 (her segment is between minutes 4-36 of the program).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com