tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post1212348734863720832..comments2023-10-20T21:52:36.752+05:30Comments on Cross Connections: Vande Mataram can survive without our singing it...Farzana Verseyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06891229615361937135noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-20273082262169303432013-05-15T00:27:05.667+05:302013-05-15T00:27:05.667+05:30"willingly accept 'other' non-provabl..."willingly accept 'other' non-provable ideas" <br /><br />How do we go ahead with this... I have just recorded the following<br /><br />1. As of 2013 I see "Farzana Versey ji", her photo, her blog post and have recorded this message. <br /><br />2. I will tell next generation about "Farzana Versey ji" and her blog post. The next generation carry on this message generations after generations. Now as time passes some 10x100000000 years ahead, nothing will be around... Traces of "Farzana Versey ji" will be not found at all. Now, on such a situation some devoted followers take all the pain and repeatedly carry on this message. Now suddenly a skeptic who starts to disbelieve for no good reason argues... "Those who talk about being brainwashed by science will willingly accept 'other' non-provable ideas" <br /><br />Madam... what are the future generations to answer skeptics... "Farzana Versey ji" is present or absent?<br /><br />3. "Science, religion and superstition all can and must be questioned" No madam. Everything stands very much on "belief". It is a systematic teaching both from the social and pre-programmed genetic information getting carried forward to believe that the child born is the one who gives birth to it. Or otherwise there are many living species who just give birth and do nothing later about the child. Their attachments are not as deep as a humans. And some cannot look after their child, but even then these species very much survive.<br /><br />The true parent is only the one who originally started this.... everything else is an illusion that we are systematically taught or have been brought up with.<br /><br />If you ask me to prove it, I would quote "It has been told historically". So, it is very much correct. As in the case of you being present now but untraceable for generations down the line. Just because you are unprovable does not mean you are absent now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-61194065711123213652013-05-14T23:16:56.837+05:302013-05-14T23:16:56.837+05:30Science, religion and superstition all can and mus...Science, religion and superstition all can and must be questioned. Those who talk about being brainwashed by science will willingly accept 'other' non-provable ideas. Not everything can be interpreted individually. <br /><br />Anyhow, this post was about something else. All theories are available by researching, and then it is upto us to delve deeper. FVnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-6543863174564624982013-05-14T16:38:43.113+05:302013-05-14T16:38:43.113+05:30Farzana Versey ji, you wrote "I'm afraid ...Farzana Versey ji, you wrote "I'm afraid but I think parents know how babies are born"....<br /><br />In that case:-<br />1. Can you then please explain me how from nothingness a male sperms arise? how from nothing nothingness a female ovaries arise? Do you really know how ovaries are produced in your body? Parents really know about all that? Parents are an important medium for birth. But they are not the ones knowing the scientific principles behind all this.<br /><br />2. Which Darwin's theory Madam. Be specific.<br /><br />3. Can you explain me how and why from nothingness gases started expanding (big bang)? Can you show me in a controlled environment with absolute vacuum with nothing in it gases suddenly arising and expanding etc. Is that possible? Does it not sound like "abracadabra"? Nothing 2 mins before and afterwards mins gases start expanding in a close environment.<br /><br />Please don't fall for systematic brainwashing. Please think and then tell me. Big Bang (a pejorative term used as a tease by Fred Hoyle) is an unproven theory. You are quoting it as thought it is a proof. If there were gases, rationally those gases should have a beginning, what was that beginning? Do question infinitely. Truth will appear.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-4088873846402656032013-05-12T22:49:56.720+05:302013-05-12T22:49:56.720+05:30SM:
We either concentrate on the insult or how th...SM:<br /><br />We either concentrate on the insult or how they insult is perceived, and then it snowballs. It is always a tough call to take whether one ought to write about such things or not, and then one sees it all over and one has an opinion that may have some merit, even for argument, so one adds to it. <br /><br />---<br /><br />Anon:<br /><br />Now that you have got it out of your system, I do hope you had a good day. FVnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-84142469603970265152013-05-12T22:45:08.953+05:302013-05-12T22:45:08.953+05:30I wish the aions would append initials or a nickna...I wish the aions would append initials or a nickname...I am getting confused ...<br /><br />Anon:<br /><br />{A person who wishes to hug any one label too tight – to the exclusion of his/her all other labels – will have a problem...}<br /><br />I agree with the spirit of your comment, but we all have labels. Why do we make religion into a bogey. What about other rules that may not conform with other societal norms? What about dissent? <br /><br />There are several beliefs that contradict a system. It should be able to withstand it, unless it goes against civilised behaviour and harms others. <br /><br />---<br /><br />Akanksha:<br /><br />I was glad I had written about that earlier. These things do offer us a better perspective, for we can look back and see how much has changed, or not at all. <br /><br />Thanks for pointing out the MLA error. I had mentioned MP elsewhere. Anyhow, made the change. <br /><br />FVnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-92141957556432217032013-05-12T14:39:31.433+05:302013-05-12T14:39:31.433+05:30Anonymous, you need to read more on a subject. Ins...Anonymous, you need to read more on a subject. Insulting a community is wrong, as SM says.<br /><br />FV, ma'am your piece of 2006 is crucial to understand the needless controversy. I did not know about the UP directive. Thanks for the quotes from Tagore and Rehman. <br /><br />I think the BSP minister is MP.<br /><br />Regards, AkankshaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-41315562800273473102013-05-11T21:59:22.728+05:302013-05-11T21:59:22.728+05:30You wrote my mind! Disagreement should not be show...You wrote my mind! Disagreement should not be shown via insult. Such acts cause people to loose focus from the pertinent issues and spend time and effort on needless crapSMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12730642033015098217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-38261032841202151262013-05-10T20:51:41.564+05:302013-05-10T20:51:41.564+05:30It all boils down to a question of identity. A Mus...It all boils down to a question of identity. A Muslim would have an identity due to his/her religion label, any Indian would also wear a geography label – for most (Indian Muslim) individuals, there is no conflict between the two identities as long as they do not hug one (or other) label too close. A person who wishes to hug any one label too tight – to the exclusion of his/her all other labels – will have a problem, if he/she is too beholden to the core of the religion and the core requires absolute adherence to prescribed conducts, so sooner or later they will have to trample upon other modes of conduct which run counter to the prescribed conduct.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-63788149481973725482013-05-10T20:23:50.821+05:302013-05-10T20:23:50.821+05:30An interesting comparison here...
A.R. Rahman'...An interesting comparison here...<br /><br /><b>A.R. Rahman's lyrics for his version of Vande Mataram— 'Maa Tujhe Salaam':</b><br /><br />Yahan vahan sara jahan dekh liya <br />Ab tak bhi tere jaisa koi nahin<br /><br />Main assi nahin, sau din duniya ghooma hai<br />Naahi kahe tere jaisa koi nahin<br /><br />Main gaya jahan bhi, bas teri yaad thi <br />Jo mere sath thi mujhko tadpaati rulaati<br /><br />Sab se pyari teri soorat<br />Pyaar hai bas tera, pyaar hiii<br /><br />Maa tujhe salam, maa tujhe salam<br /><br />Amma tujhe salaam Vande mataram, vande mataram (3)<br /> <br />Janam janam tera hoon deewana main<br />Jhoomoon naachoon gaaoon tere pyaar ka taraana<br /><br />Main jeena nahin soch nahin duniya ki daulat nahin<br />Bas lootunga tere pyaar ka khazaana<br /><br />Ek nazar jab teri hoti hai pyaar ki<br />Duniya tab to meri chamke damke maheke re<br />Tera chehra sooraj jaisa chand si thand hai pyar mein<br /><br />Vande mataram, vande mataram (3)<br /><br />Tere paas hi main aa raha hoon<br />Apni baahein khol de<br />Zor se mujhko gale laga le<br />Mujhko phir voh pyaar de <br />Tu hi zindagi hai, tu hi meri mohabat hai<br />Tere hi pairon mein jannat hai<br />Tu hi dil, tu jaan, amma Maa tujhe salam, maa tujhe salam<br />Amma tujhe salaam, maa tujhe salaam <br /><br />Vande mataram, vande mataram (4)<br /><br /><b>and these words</b><br /><br />1. The Prophet said, "Your Heaven lies under the feet of your mother"<br /><br />2. A man came to the Prophet and said, ‘O Messenger of God! Who among the people is the most worthy of my good companionship? The Prophet said: Your mother. The man said, ‘Then who?' The Prophet said: Then your mother. The man further asked, ‘Then who?' The Prophet said: Then your mother. The man asked again, ‘Then who?' The Prophet said: Then your father. (Bukhari, Muslim).<br />FVnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-50491474802558147652013-05-10T17:06:05.794+05:302013-05-10T17:06:05.794+05:30Farzana Ji,
Questioning can never be regarded as ...Farzana Ji,<br /><br />Questioning can never be regarded as disrespectful at least not in India. I fully second your opinion about this. <br /><br />As far as recognizing insult is concerned, I agree that there are topics and some complex scenarios where one has to be aware of the minute aspects before coming to a conclusion. But there are simple scenarios as this one where one doesn't have to do a research before recognising an insult. If 100 other MPs are singing the National song, and one just abruptly walks out at the very moment what do we conclude out of it ? He has the complete freedom of not singing the song if it hurts his religious sentiments, but walking out of the Parliament is just taking it little forward and will obviously be seen as disrespectful. <br /><br />As long as we keep our passion to ourselves and not thrust upon others it is harmless. <br /><br />Cheers.Nihar (@kumarnihar )http://www.twitter.com/kumarniharnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-42139319589844128282013-05-10T14:43:31.464+05:302013-05-10T14:43:31.464+05:30Joshi:
{Vande Mataram is a national song...It sho...Joshi:<br /><br />{Vande Mataram is a national song...It should be sung every day every place (in front of masjids too) If people have problem with it, quickly pack your bags and leave for pakistan or bangladesh.}<br /><br />I hope you do so; it might keep you busy. But there might be complaints about noise pollution. <br /><br />Whoever you are, you have no business to tell anybody to leave this country - especially if they are contributing to it. <br /><br />If you cannot handle one stray MP's 'insult', then why don;t you pack your bags and go to Nepal? <br /><br />FVnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-35385721976706177642013-05-10T14:40:00.601+05:302013-05-10T14:40:00.601+05:30Shahzad:
Appreciate your views. But the fact you ...Shahzad:<br /><br />Appreciate your views. But the fact you have to state that the "nation is much much much important than the religion" bothers me. They are TWO different entities. <br /><br />---<br /><br />Anon:<br /><br />{If a muslims can think like Shahzad said... we are strongest country in world..}<br /><br />The tragedy is that a Muslim has to even say it. I'd like a Hindu to say this, too. I think a country is strong when its people are fruitfully occupied and have fair opportunities to realise their potential and not when they publicly need to owe allegiance to what is theirs. <br /> FVnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-46448293556894310622013-05-10T14:34:56.879+05:302013-05-10T14:34:56.879+05:30F&F:
I don't see why the MP cannot live i...F&F:<br /><br />I don't see why the MP cannot live in India because of his act. He may be questioned, or even tried in court. About wearing a T-shirt with the Prophet's cartoon, I hope to recall the hue and cry when images of deities were used or when Madonna sang shlokas. <br /><br />Will the Sanghi cabal have answers? <br /><br />PS: Munni, badnaam or not, could well be somebody's mother. If she has recall value, then we truly are a nation of good sons!<br /><br />---<br /><br />Abhishek:<br /><br />Thanks for the information. I did not understand much of it, but fortunately I know about many of these details. FVnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-27510263060189203652013-05-10T14:28:28.839+05:302013-05-10T14:28:28.839+05:30Ganeshjacharya:
I'm afraid but I think parent...Ganeshjacharya:<br /><br />I'm afraid but I think parents know how babies are born. A mother sustains the foetus inside her and I think she is not unlike a creator. <br /><br />{No scientist till date is aware of how from nothingness an individual is born? In that sense the creator is also the mother of everyone because thy gave birth to us. So how come telling “Vande Mataram” “I bow down to thy mother” should be objectionable at all?}<br /><br />Well, we have the Big Bang Theory and we have Darwin. There is no problem in thinking of a creator as a parent, and respecting her. But, there is no one set of parents for the whole world. <br /><br />The MP brought the issue to the fore once again, beyond that he is not important. It is a subject that has caused people to question. Do read the links. <br /><br />FVnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-45910285593407451542013-05-10T14:21:31.689+05:302013-05-10T14:21:31.689+05:30Nihar:
True that many controversies are political...Nihar:<br /><br />True that many controversies are politically-driven. <br /><br />- - -<br />{But I don't agree with your argument that "How many Indians know the Vande Mataram song ?". Let's forget about this song issue for a moment. I dont know Bhagwat Gita or Quran for that matter. Or let's say I dont know the technical nuances of our constitution. Does that mean I should stay neutral or passive to any insult to all these ?}<br /><br />- - -<br />Let me ask you a counter-query: If you do not know about these - as many of us indeed are unaware - then how does one recognise an insult? Of course, one cannot stay neutral. We uphold the Constitution, and if some are religious then they will stand by their religion, or at least how it has been imparted to them. But one person's passion can become another's insult, and religion unfortunately is what sustains a lot of people. <br /><br />The question is how we define respect. I question the faith I was born in a lot. I question my country. I do not think these are disrespectful. <br /><br />Glad to have this exchange. FVnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-67685041919246569262013-05-10T14:13:48.818+05:302013-05-10T14:13:48.818+05:30Raja S:
{I've never been a fan of symbolism o...Raja S:<br /><br />{I've never been a fan of symbolism of any sort but if at all we are going to use symbolism, I'd rather have something that is TRULY - and naturally - unifying for EVERY Indian.}<br /><br />Perfectly conveyed, and echoes my sentiments. <br /><br />Thanks. <br /><br /> FVnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-53015019806381078532013-05-10T11:56:05.245+05:302013-05-10T11:56:05.245+05:30If a muslims can think like Shahzad said... we ar...If a muslims can think like Shahzad said... we are strongest country in world..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-68715381316969331742013-05-10T10:49:32.536+05:302013-05-10T10:49:32.536+05:30Vande Mataram is a national song.
It should be su...Vande Mataram is a national song.<br /><br />It should be sung every day every place (in front of masjids too)<br /><br />If people have problem with it, quickly pack your bags and leave for pakistan or bangladesh.<br /><br />Joshihttp://google.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-33224874730098039942013-05-10T10:45:32.958+05:302013-05-10T10:45:32.958+05:30I' a muslim, but I'm an Indian first. I...I' a muslim, but I'm an Indian first. I'm ready to leave my religion if it stops me from respecting my nation or the national song. Fortunately, Islam does not stop me from respecting the holy song of this nation.<br />For me nation is much much much important than the religion.Shahzadnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-22307850442775966672013-05-10T09:19:47.336+05:302013-05-10T09:19:47.336+05:30FV
I did not miss anything. I do not have the sek...FV<br /><br />I did not miss anything. I do not have the sekulaar habit of selective reading. :)<br /><br />That was good..!<br /><br />I noted your "hard" questions to Muslims. What you did not ask is why the dickens are these guys living in India. Do I have the liberty to go around wearing a Tshirt with a Prophet cartoon? Does this constitution-loving MP support me?<br /><br />We will never know because the sekulaar cabal will never ask him.<br /><br />The recall value argument is amusing. And I am sure you know it. Vande Mataram is the official national song. And Munni Badnam Hui has even higher recall value. Hope you won't accuse me of being unpatriotic by comparing the incomparables!Free and Footloosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16911514463551198170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-4008564189508663822013-05-10T08:16:40.082+05:302013-05-10T08:16:40.082+05:30if vande matram is not acceptable then jan gad man...if vande matram is not acceptable then jan gad mann is totally unacceptable it is stuti of englands king Georje-5 . <br />after hearing this song king became very happy on tagore so hi decided to give him noble prize but tagore knows that this song is not good so he said give noble for gitanjali. so angrej given promotion to jana gana mana made this controversy of vande matram becoz in those day vande matram was inspiration for all patriots .Gandhi ji also realised jana mana gana is not good so he said to nehru but nehru was not convinced so a new song have been created vijayi viswa tiranga pyara but we knows it as jhanda gaan but nehru rejected it also and at last accepted jana gana mana as national anthem and vande matram as national song . No Filter Posthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05372561501172256425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-73965652139087256912013-05-10T07:44:40.871+05:302013-05-10T07:44:40.871+05:30“Vande Mataram” – Only Ishwar, Allah, or GOD true ...“Vande Mataram” – Only Ishwar, Allah, or GOD true mother-father<br /><br />From the true sense only the creator (call thy Ishwar, Allah, or GOD) can be anyone’s mother, father or, parent… because only the creator actually started this universe and everything that we see? The parents who physically gave us birth are not aware how a human birth happens and they were one important medium but not our creator? No scientist till date is aware of how from nothingness an individual is born? In that sense the creator is also the mother of everyone because thy gave birth to us. So how come telling “Vande Mataram” “I bow down to thy mother” should be objectionable at all?<br /><br />Isn’t Ishwar, Allah, or GOD everyone’s mother-father as well? Isn’t it only showing the ignorance of the MP, and all those who are objecting? So how’s bowing down to creator (true mother-father) a shirk?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-66711202797546956312013-05-10T03:53:36.949+05:302013-05-10T03:53:36.949+05:30Farzana Ji,
This post sums up the whole hue and c...Farzana Ji,<br /><br />This post sums up the whole hue and cry about Vande Matarm pretty well. It's no longer a rocket science theory to understand that all these controversies are either used to gain petty political mileage or subvert other concerning issues.<br /><br />But I don't agree with your argument that "How many Indians know the Vande Mataram song ?". Let's forget about this song issue for a moment. I dont know Bhagwat Gita or Quran for that matter. Or let's say I dont know the technical nuances of our constitution. Does that mean I should stay neutral or passive to any insult to all these ? <br />I agree with you that singing can't be forced upon someone to show patriotism. At the same time it can't be insulted which you have rightly hinted. The MP could have maintained silence till the song was over. By walking out and later on by giving some unapologetic sound bytes, he worsened it.<br /><br />If one has the freedom of belief in anything, one has to respect the belief of others..that is the whole idea of India.Nihar(@kumarnihar)http://www.twitter.com/kumarniharnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-31332259469343820772013-05-10T03:16:05.481+05:302013-05-10T03:16:05.481+05:30I agree with your post.
I myself do not know Vand...I agree with your post.<br /><br />I myself do not know Vande Mataram. It does not mean I do not care about India any less than those who know it. I think it should be a matter of individual choice.<br /><br />I've never been a fan of symbolism of any sort but if at all we are going to use symbolism, I'd rather have something that is TRULY - and naturally - unifying for EVERY Indian. Rajahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06084456881187795771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-78863443039714728112013-05-10T01:44:19.585+05:302013-05-10T01:44:19.585+05:30F&F:
The fact is that Saare jahaan se achcha ...F&F:<br /><br />The fact is that Saare jahaan se achcha has more recall value. Recall Rakesh Sharma, our first man in space? I don't need to hand over certificates. But if some people feel stamped by what I say, I can't help it, <br /><br />The Vande Mataram & struggles of the nation is so disingenuous. As regards reservations for Muslims, Babri being rebuilt, J&K being liberated (from whom? Isn't it in India?), I am mildly amused how you even use a song for ulterior motives. <br /><br />“Time to end the myriad Jihads?"<br /><br />Uh, what happens to the uniform Muslim are like that? Where did variety come in? I suppose inspired by the fork tongue of the saffron terror networks that play hide and seek in the name of culture. <br /><br />I notice that in your excitement you missed out on what I said about Muslims, so here again:<br /><br />“The Muslims are cribbing that bowing before anyone but Allah is un-Islamic. These clerics ought to know that people regularly bow at tombstones in dargahs. Don’t many Muslim organisations carry around pictures of religious leaders and even rebel political figures in a crass mockery of obeisance? Where is their Islam, then?"<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />FVnoreply@blogger.com