tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post6122780024693869936..comments2023-10-20T21:52:36.752+05:30Comments on Cross Connections: What Makes Premji a ‘Muslim tycoon’? Can we see his philanthropy without religious blinkers?Farzana Verseyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06891229615361937135noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-3454939718304191442013-03-03T22:04:00.126+05:302013-03-03T22:04:00.126+05:30FV
The point is not India but Islam. Islam demand...FV<br /><br />The point is not India but Islam. Islam demands that its adherants ruthlessly and remorselessly eliminate traces of other religions and cultures, not just from their own lives but from the world at large. This foundational tenet is the root cause of all the Jihadi terror.<br /><br />Thanks for explaining to me my own views. Thought I knew them! Where would Hindus be without such selfless sekulaarism?<br /><br />By the way, 'death for conversion' is the only feature of Islam that Hinduism needs to imbibe. Besides this, Islam brings nothing new to the table.<br /><br />Not even terrorism! :)Free and Footloosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16911514463551198170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-15215009222540244492013-03-02T23:48:09.325+05:302013-03-02T23:48:09.325+05:30Al:
I fully understand people being given credit ...Al:<br /><br />I fully understand people being given credit for their contribution. I just do not like the idea of outsourcing of the very idea of charity. Only because it is secular - if we push it a bit, then many of the ills in society are based on superstitious reluctance to use science and would therefore not be secular, but then I would be splitting hairs. <br /><br />This is no way exonerates how Indian business works. <br /><br />Re. the Gates/Buffett perception I have, you might like to look at the latter half of this piece: <br /><br />http://farzana-versey.blogspot.in/2011/04/echoes-beyond-mortenson-fabricated.html<br /><br />---<br /><br />F&F:<br /><br />I don't have a clue where all these 'important' points came in here. I can give examples to the contrary, too...and you must have surely heard about Rizwan, who was killed because he married a Hindu girl in Kolkata. Her influential father managed to muzzle any further noise. <br /><br />So let us not go there. And do regale us with stories about all the Hindu families that have accepted Muslims without ever asking them to perform any rituals that go contrary to their culture. India is not about one culture, one religion. <br /><br />Hate to even bring this quid pro quo here, but time you figured out what you are talking about. FVnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-78243545618342618982013-02-25T11:19:27.672+05:302013-02-25T11:19:27.672+05:30FV:"However, one may find a Birla temple, but...FV:"However, one may find a Birla temple, but there are other institutions they are responsible for. Same goes for Ambanis. One may have issues with business model and even the nature of philanthropy, but they exist. "<br /><br />I doubt the Birlas are role models for anyone, as any of their employees will tell you. They scam their own employees out of their pensions and the government of taxes, and their pretensions of being charitable cannot override their underlying dishonesty in their day-to-day operation. The Birlas (like other crony capitalists in India) got rich by riding on the coattails of venal politicians in India's past who were wedded to socialism as a concept and restricted the playing field to a select few. Even Idi Amin freely donated to Mother Theresa and made claims of being charitable, if one stretches this concept to its limits.<br /><br />-Al<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-36224583639878200672013-02-25T11:12:23.981+05:302013-02-25T11:12:23.981+05:30FV:"The Gates/Buffett charity may be secular,...FV:"The Gates/Buffett charity may be secular, but it has other issues of seeking another form of gratitude, of playing god, of teaching people from 'lesser' societies on how to give. Another form of 'donated by XYZ'. "<br /><br />FV, Gates/Buffet charities don't appear to be playing god to me, unless vaccinating people in poorly governed countries amounts to playing. Or maybe you are referring to some other activity of theirs, but then they earned that money by honest means, so it is theirs to spend as they wish. <br /><br />The only part I find obscene about "structure ABC donated by XYZ" is the kind of structure ABC is, and in the examples I refer to, the obscene part is that they are religious structures that benefit no one, excepts XYZ's ego and possibly regressive individuals that use the wealth in unhelpful ways, compared to helping improve public health or public education.<br /><br />if that structure ABC benefits people like a school, or a program that benefits people across the board without discrimination, then I don't see why XYZ cannot take credit for it. Do all donations have to be anonymous to be truly worthy of merit?<br /><br />Don't understand the "lesser people" comment -- did one of them say that? Could you please expand on this?<br /><br /> I would also add that If every rich person actually behaved like Gates/Buffett, we would have rich people voluntarily handing over all their wealth to charity and bequeath a nominal amount to their own kids -- definitely role models for wealthy people wouldn't you say? In fact, such behavior is lauded by most religions that speak of charity towards the less fortunate if I am not mistaken.<br /><br />My view is that Gates/Buffet put their money where their mouth is, which is more than one can say for those who build temples and mosques and adorn them with plaques trumpeting their so-called charity. <br /><br />Philanthropists who donate large sums of money for causes that do not discriminate who benefits from the money can surely take credit for finding a purpose for their wealth, compared to mostly stingy, exploitative, and self-serving super rich crowd on the planet. The ideologies of marxism and socialism may well be redundant if the wealthy ones all behaved like Gates. :)<br /><br />-Al<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-64580422714478334042013-02-25T08:02:46.378+05:302013-02-25T08:02:46.378+05:30FV
1. I can give numerous examples of Muslims opp...FV<br /><br />1. I can give numerous examples of Muslims opposing marriage of a Muslim girl to a Hindu boy, many times through mad violence.<br />2. I can give numerous examples of Muslim women insisting on man's conversion to Islam before marriage (and the Hindu men capitulating).<br />3. I can cite countless examples of Qafiro-phobia among Muslims.<br /><br />I can do all if the above without once referring to Pap-istan or Saudi Arabia.can I exercise the privilege here?Free and Footloosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16911514463551198170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-7919788170508277702013-02-24T22:57:23.157+05:302013-02-24T22:57:23.157+05:30Al:
Agree with you about how some philanthropists...Al:<br /><br />Agree with you about how some philanthropists are busy building places of worship rather than institutions for more practical needs.<br /><br />However, one may find a Birla temple, but there are other institutions they are responsible for. Same goes for Ambanis. One may have issues with business model and even the nature of philanthropy, but they exist. <br /><br />The Gates/Buffett charity may be secular, but it has other issues of seeking another form of gratitude, of playing god, of teaching people from 'lesser' societies on how to give. <br /><br />Another form of 'donated by XYZ'. <br /><br />Of course, this does not absolve the prejudice and superstition that prompts most philanthropy in our society. <br /><br />Premji is a 'secular deity' for some :)FVnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-91540819612618090552013-02-24T22:46:04.477+05:302013-02-24T22:46:04.477+05:30Vipul:
I agree that this is not about religion. T...Vipul:<br /><br />I agree that this is not about religion. That is the crux: why it is portrayed as such. <br /><br />India, besides its role models, also lives in the hope of millions who don't have the means to either express or deny their beliefs. <br /><br />F&F:<br /><br />I was not discussing Azim Premji's personal life. Even so, have you cared to check out those from other faiths where the woman/children are brought up as those of the father's religion? <br /><br />Would this be secular enough for you? <br /><br />RA:<br /><br />It is not just the media, although it plays a huge role. <br /><br />Much of what passes for patriotism is superficial. FVnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-84465209485512720152013-02-24T12:37:22.463+05:302013-02-24T12:37:22.463+05:30Rizwan Alam
I am not a journalist.Rizwan Alam<br /><br />I am not a journalist.Free and Footloosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16911514463551198170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-66219446088104330342013-02-24T09:31:34.389+05:302013-02-24T09:31:34.389+05:30I don't know why Muslims in India have to decl...I don't know why Muslims in India have to declare their religion and display love for their country as it was in short supply. The cudgel mindset of the media should change or simply islamophobia has become a vogue for many journalistsAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09547796427871162928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-43365559384670597222013-02-22T09:07:45.662+05:302013-02-22T09:07:45.662+05:30FV, Philanthropy of the Bill Gates or Premji kin...FV, Philanthropy of the Bill Gates or Premji kind has been blind to race/religion etc., unlike so many "philanthropists" of today who fund people belonging to their favorite religion or social group. So the comparison to Bill Gates is correct in the sense of it being truly humanistic/secular and not with some parochial or religious agenda.<br /><br />No comment on the burning need to for people to compare Indians of one kind to some one else much more famous and with some common characteristics, as if to satisfy some deep-seated complex...agree that it is odious at various levels.<br /><br />For every Premji in India, there are surely a few 100 "hindu and musliim philanthropists" that spend their cash on building large temples no one visits or religious schools that are regressive in their curriculum. <br /><br />Drive along the highway from Goa to Bangalore and you will see villages with no roads or schools and the intermittent well-constructed road with night lights and such that usually leads to some shiny new religious construction -- the school in the same village will resemble a cow shack with a few benches and no teachers and in filthy surroundings. Things are even worse in Tamilnadu...throw in politically connected criminal gangs running villages for more "flavor" of village life in the 21st century.<br /><br /> If only these people with money to burn spent it on the local schooling or public education, philanthropy by Indians would seem less like an exercise in placing the family name on ozymandian relics with a plaque stating "This proudly donated to the public by the family of XYZ to the village of ABC" in the local language. <br /><br /> But then superstition, prejudice, and ignorance is not just the domain of only the poor and the illiterate in India, or anywhere else for that matter. <br /><br />-AlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16761020.post-23574166720072366902013-02-21T19:55:46.595+05:302013-02-21T19:55:46.595+05:30I am a Proud Indian because of people like Aziz Pr...I am a Proud Indian because of people like Aziz Premji, NR Narayanmurthy & Co. And all religions preach on serving the mankind in your own personal capacity. Fact of the matter is that this isn't about religion in any which way. This is about humanity! Let us not vititate his noble deed and stupendous effort by making this a debate on religion - @vipul_baggaVipulnoreply@blogger.com