“Indian Muslims and Pakistanis need to apply their god-given intelligence to whether they really want Indian Hindus to believe in the two nation theory or not - keeping in mind that if an Indian Hindu believes in two-nation theory that means that Indian Hindu believes Muslims have no place in India.” (From a comment posted below)
Oh my, my. A person who says
Here is what I want to say:
- IHs cannot believe in any such two-nation theory. It isn’t their job to decide in a secular republic.
- The IH cannot decide that Muslims have no place in
- Should the Indian Constitution be changed, then IHs will have to leave out several areas within states that have a large Muslim population, and that includes some great places in Mumbai, half of the Hindi film industry, all of the slaughter-houses, tanneries, the sea-front where the Haji Ali dargah is and the Taj Mahal too…now that you have made it into one of the Wonders of the World, it will be a tough call to take.
- On what basis will the two-nation theory be floated? Since the idea is a Hindu’s, however hypothetical it may be, then they will have to find a state, right? Just as Jinnah did. So, if you want to fantasise, then start working really hard on how to realise that fantasy. Because the only time I move my ass is when I rock-and-roll (wherever) and travel to lands carrying little Indian knick-knacks. And then I return home. Geddit?
PS: Will someone wipe the smile off my face? I feel like a cat that has licked all the cream. Yes, I belong to the creamy layer, honey. And if you have a problem with an Indian Muslim who isn’t curdled milk that you can throw away, then just too bad.
Those who really want to froth some more at the mouth, and missed it, might try to see what I had to say about Black Friday.
Here is what a Pakistani replied to my comment on your blog
ReplyDelete" If you have a problem with the the two-nation theory, then that's just too bad for you"
You chose to reply to me the Hindu, and mock me, not reply to him/her the Pakistani Muslim nor mock him.
Your actions speak louder than your words. As I said, make up YOUR mind, lady, who are members of your nation, Indian Hindus or Pakistani Muslims. I already know as I don't believe in the two nation theory and think it the most racist cruel bit of goobledygook which Jinnah spent 7 years going up India and down India abusing the Hindus for NOT accepting.
Those 7 years of speeches and statements by Jinnah abusing Hindus for not accepting the two nation theory are on the public record for those honest enough to seek them out.You are not one of those.
Why should I have responded to the Pakistani who was stating a fact about his country, whereas you are talking about a fantasy that you have for my country and which directly affects many people of one community?
ReplyDeleteIf he says too bad you have a problem with the two-nation theory, he is in fact asking you to get on with life; that is done and over with. I am addressing your simplistic idea of a two-nation theory that could be a gleam in the eye of Indian Hindus.
I am glad you are asking me to make up my mind who are members of my nation; I am afraid Pakistani Muslims do not figure (it is irrelevant whether they would even want to), just as those from Papua New Guinea cannot. Heard about citizenship?
If you did not believe in the gobbledygook of the two-nation theory, you would not mention it even as an idea for contemporary India.
As regards records of speeches by Jinnah, H M Seervai, in his book on the Partition, has raised in important issue: "It is a little unfortunate that those who assail Jinnah for destroying the unity of India do not ask how it was that a man who wanted a nationalist solution till as late as 1938, when he was 61 years of age, suddenly become a 'communalist'."
Let us accept that no one person can be responsible for dividing a country.
I did not mention the two nation theory, the Pakistani did and I was only answering him/her. But you are refusing to acknowledge that and are berating me not only for the two nation theory but for the sin of answering him. Is there any limit to your hatred of Hindus, lady, because I see none.
ReplyDeleteYes, we should all ask why Jinnah who was a nationalist at a time when Hindus had no elected majority at the center became such a determined separatist when the time came to concede the elected Hindu majority at the center.
We need to ask why did a supposed nationalist like Jinnah demand that the Hindu majority reduce itself to a legislative minority with respect to Muslims as the price of his cooperation?
We need to ask why Jinnah's hatred of Hindus is still considered a legitimate reason to deprive Hindus of their just rights as he demanded? Muslims must look to reasons for such megalomania on the part of such a "nationalist".They might find something they don't like about themselves at the root of it. They might even find Churchill at the root of it like the US lay at the root of Pakistani megalomania for many years.
We need to ask why Pakistan has spent most of its independent existence in the same megalomaniacal pursuit of demanding parity with the many times bigger India on the count that the numerical majority constitutes an existential threat merely because it is Hindu.
We should ask why Muslims of India like you absolve Jinnah of his many years of propagating the two nation theory and demanding parity in its name and yet Muslims of India like you continue to berate Hindus for Jinnah's own considered and chosen actions.
We need to ask why Pakistan has waged an armed jihad against India for the last 18 years in the name of the same two nation theory and yet you defend the Pakistani state's sponsorship of terrorists attacking Indians, including Dawood Ibrahim and instead choose to put down Hindus who mention that.
But no, as long as Hindus are around to be blamed for the plight of you and other Muslims of the region, that constitutes a fundamental truth and neither Pakistani nor Indian Muslims need any critical examination of history past or recent or of their leaders.
As for getting on with life, I am only trying to communicate with a fellow Indian who appears to think being Muslim is synonymous with being right and being Hindu is synonymous with being wrong. You need stop defending Jinnah's abuse of Hindus for not conceding their majority to Muslims, stop defending criminal instruments of the Pakistani state's anti-India terrorism policy and get on with YOUR life.
Because disparate points of view are fine and required but when they constitute irrational displays of your hatred for Hindus as above, they do not provide any real solutions to the problems of Muslims in India- at least learn that much from Jinnah and Pakistan.
Since we are into simplistic understanding of history, I suppose it helps preserve our version of heritage. I did not ask you to get on with your life, but thanks for being concerned about mine.
ReplyDeleteDawood has not been indicted by the INDIAN Courts,. I hope you understand that IMs or Jinnah's ghost is not passing such verdicts.
Re. the two-nation theory, you started with it in your first comment on the earlier blog post where you talked about what if Hindus want a Hindu Rashtra. You may not have used a specific term but if the ideas oyu mentioned isn't about dividing, then what is it? Besides, you tarnish a whole community. I have not rubbished all Hindus. Some of them are my best friends (chortle). So, stop feeling so abused by Muslims. And I am not mocking anyone. I just find your going and and on about how i did not comment on the Pakistani and chose to respond to you rather strange.
S/he was not interested in my views, but yours.
As re. Jinnah, I have written enough and I do not agree with you.
PS: As for my being able to get published, may i point out that I have been revived in the mainstream Indian media after over 5 years. Do you know that a column that ran for 11 years was spiked without my being informed, and am still in the dark about the reason? Do you know that I now do not hope for anything to last? That there is no organisational support and one is merely sticking it out in an individual capacity? I mention this to give you a background...please do not appease me as a 'whining minority'. I can do without it. Thanks.
End of this discussion for me.
FV: "I did not ask you to get on with your life, but thanks for being concerned about mine."
ReplyDeleteFV: "If he says too bad you have a problem with the two-nation theory, he is in fact asking you to get on with life; that is done and over"
Are you this Pakistani's mouthpiece or a plain liar?
The two nation theory is not done and over. Dawood Ibrahim whom you have taken such pains to defend has been a chosen ally of the Pakistani state's terrorist agenda against India for the last at least 14 years and the Pakistani state has been waging an armed jihad against India for the last 18 years in the name of the two nation theory.
But plain liars like you will not admit plain facts. I am also done with this discussion.
As for Jinnah and his politics, ponder on this.
ReplyDeleteThe Congress wanted a government responsible to elected legislature. Jinnah rejected the idea of electoral democracy and government responsible to legislature because Hindus would be in majority.
His successors rejected the idea of electoral democracy and government responsible to legislature in Pakistan because Bengalis would be in a majority. Today when it suits them, rulers in Pakistan reject the idea of electoral democracy and government responsible to legislature because they consider that illiterates and other people unfit to vote are in a majority in their country.
Pakistan and Bangladesh (to some extent) as nonfunctional democracies thus lag Indians by 60 years in conceptual acceptance of government responsible to elected legislature.
It was not the majority Hindu leaders' fault if in the 1920s and 1930s they were willing to be answerable to electorates and legislatures in their future constitution but their counterpart Muslim leaders were not.
As can be seen in the last 60 years, pre-independence Congress leaders of all religious and community affiliations fulfilled their promise to Indians of providing government responsible to elected legislatures while the Muslim leaders in Pakistan did not. Hindu leaders of the 20s and 30s cannot be held responsible for lack of democratic spirit in Muslim leaders - Pakistan and Bangladesh's respective political trajectories are proof of that.
If in the 1920s and 1930s, Congress broke off from Jinnah who did not believe in democracy and government responsible to elected legislature as long as Hindus were to be a majority, Congress made the right decision for all Indians who today believe in electoral democracy and government responsible to elected legislatures.
By refusing to compromise on this principle with Muslim leaders who went on to violate the representative principle in Pakistan, the pre-independence Congress saved Indians from a lot of misery and political instability.
http://www.asianage.com/presentation/leftnavigation/news/top-story/muslims-plan-srikrishna-stir.aspx
ReplyDeleteExcerpts from the report in The Asian Age:
Muslims plan Srikrishna stir
By Our Special Correspondent
Mumbai, July 26: An umbrella organisation formed on Thursday night, called the "Muslim Peoples Movement for Justice", will chalk out a programme for the implementation of the Srikrishna Commission report.
- - -
Mr Arzu said discussions at Thursday night’s meeting centred on how "we should react to the Tada court judgments that are being currently delivered. We have decided to ask for the implementation of the Srikrishna Commission report. Justice has to be even-handed, otherwise there will be a grudge among the members of the community. We have to take the agitation path as the government is least bothered."
He said that whenever they ask the government about what’s being done about those persons indicted by the Srikrishna Commission report, the government puts the blame on the Supreme Court and says the matter is sub judice. A public interest petition filed by Shakeel Ahmed and one more person in the Supreme Court prayed that the Centre, as well as the Maharashtra government, should accept and act upon the findings of the Srikrishna Commission among other things. The Srikrishna Commission, set up by the government after the riots, had indicted 31 police personnel, from the rank of deputy commissioner of police to constables.
- - -
Mr Arzu said Muslims People’s Movement for Justice would also be taking up the issue of the number of people missing after the riots whose families have till date not received compensation even though 15 years have passed. Over 100 people are missing and about 45 have not received compensation.
As a Hindu i fully support the two nation theory more than any other muslim ever could. Unfortunately b'cause of nehru n gandhi there still is unfinished business leftover today in India.
ReplyDeleteWhile all the hindus were butchered and cleansed so thoroughly from Pak in 1947(practice makes perfect), smug muslims like ferzana here got the best of both worlds, a India where her people could exploit, abuse and undermine its freedoms and hospitality to no end, and also a religiously pure muslim homeland in Pakistan which allows no such liberties to its almost non-existent minorities, where they can visit their relatives and be with the faithful whenever they please, free from any infidels.
What afterall it the difference between a muslim in Indian punjab/bengal or any other part of India to a pakistani/bangladeshi. Can such a person ever really be Indian and loyal to the nation. Some of them might be claim so, but once they are in the majority they will change their tune as easily as jinnah did.
You might think its a laughing matter but sooner or later a second partition will definitely have to take place, and this time there cannot be any more further giving up of territory to islam as you seem to so confidently assume.
All you followers of the arab religion will have to be driven out and annihilated from India for once and for all.
There were no human rights organisations (not that they would have cared about hindus anyway) when you're forefathers and their brood were lording it over India and busy converting us through every method possible and nor will the constitution or the psuedo-seculars be able to protect you traitors when the time comes. We'll see if that smile on your face is still there then.