What have Dawood and Afzal Guru got to do with the Mumbai carnage?

“War clouds are gathering”.

I detest the phrase. But both countries have been going on about these clouds. Since 1989 Jammu and Kashmir has been suffering, so where were these war clouds then? Our little Kargil encounter was a result of the Pokhran blasts; Pakistan had to show it could retaliate.

Aryabhatas and Ghaznavis act like our ego-boosters.

Why is India demanding that Dawood Ibrahim be handed over? Are we trying to mislead investigations or saving our skin because our intelligence agencies and government fiddled?

Pakistan has refused to also hand over Tiger Memon and JeM chief Maulana Masood Azhar too because we do not have an extradition treaty or evidence against them. If we provide it, then Pakistan will try these criminals.

I think this is fair, at least as far as protocol goes.

Now, there is a Pakistani view. I spoke with X who believes that this can be done. There are many such Pakistanis who believe that the government does not need to sit on ceremony or split hairs over legal issues. They are gathering groups and trying to make them see that a pugnacious attitude won’t help.

I agree with the theory that we don’t have to flex muscles. But why does India not provide evidence? Why did India not do anything when Dawood was in Dubai after the March 1993 blasts? Why did Chhota Rajan continue to hold his Ganesh pandals and become a ‘Hindu hero’ and patriot at the time? Why did they not get him, Dawood’s special man, to give the dirt on the D-Company?

India is in a precarious situation because we do not have enough information except that these attacks were done by those trained by the LeT based on the account of one captured terrorist. What does Pakistan do?

From a report:

A day after Pakistani security forces raided a terror camp in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) and arrested a senior LeT commander believed to have been one of the masterminds of the Mumbai attack, the government on Monday vowed not to allow its soil to be used for terrorism.

Just like that they find someone who they tout as a mastermind? This report is strange and has little knowledge about where PoK figures in the Pakistani political scheme.

Asif Ali Zardari is a dithering man – he has been vacillating from the moment he became President. I don’t understand why we are speaking to the President of Pakistan when it is the Prime Minister who should be our man there. Zardari’s dream of being the Sonia Gandhi of Pakistan seems to have come true. The problem is he would not wish to get his son Bilawal to be the mascot, like Sonia has got Rahul, yet. He needs to taste real power for himself.

Before there is another coup. Yes. The Army is always prepared to occupy the political citadel. The ISI is doing pretty much what it wants. The grand display of removing its political interference was a cosmetic exercise. What is there to spy on local politicians, anyway?

This is how they react:

“The raid was carried out to get details about the activities of the group in Kashmir following allegations by India that the LeT was using Pakistani territory for training,’’ an intelligence official said.

Fantastic. It sounds like ‘mummy asked me to clean the room’ stuff. And if we are talking LeT then I do not understand why everytime there is a terror attack, we either ask for Dawood or demand the execution of Afzal Guru. Both are Indians. So we are at war with ourselves.

Let us just end this by announcing a general ceasefire with Pakistan and declare a civil war. We can fight with each other.


  1. FV:

    Sorry for getting sidetracked here. Firstly, Eid mubarak.

    Secondly, with all this terror and teflon coated Advani, how did BJP win only 3 out of the 5 states that went to polls?

    Too many states inside the Pakistani nation -- from army to ISI. And I like Zardari. He is such an intellectual writing op-eds in WaPo and NYT. Why not try Dawn or the News instead? What's wrong with this guy? Or is something right with him?

    How long will the Ameraicans and the army tolerate him? Not for too long, I presume.

  2. FV,
    These raids and arrests are a complete eye wash as the world knows, the ISI folks would have travelled to do the "for the Camera" action and CNN is happily covering it , it is all one group . Not sure if i read it in your book but Pakistan is run by Allah, America and Army, India can only have hope from Allah .

    I have a different presepective, Dawood and Afzal Guru have helped the so called Hindu Elitist society in India, which never existed. In 1984 BJP had 2 Parliament seats, they are all over the place now and their affilates are running amock, courtesy these terrosrist strikes, they will do even better, To make matters worse, they have invited my Israeli friends here .....now we will have them work even more closely with RAW in revenge Nariman House .....Army in Pakistan just want to ensure that their "Crore Commanders" continue to run the run the country in proxy...something they have always done ....Mumbai attacks were their plans and they are on track ...we are not ....you are right ....

  3. The Army is always prepared to occupy the political citadel. The ISI is doing pretty much what it wants. The grand display of removing its political interference was a cosmetic exercise.
    And they told you all this in your living room, right? Guesswork and cynicism, don\'t call it historical understanding.

    The report about the LeT commander/Mumbai attack mastermind arrested in Pakistan...if that means Zakhiur Rehman Lakhvi, it was Indian officials who accused him of mastermining the attacks, so your comment \"Just like that they find someone who they tout as a mastermind?\" misses the mark.

  4. Oh blah, I think I forgot to write Mask up there. Sorry.

  5. Once the Afghan minister for jails visited a Kabul prison and held a prisoner count. The count turned out be 199 when the records said 200. So the jail superintendent went out on the street, caught a passer-by, and shoved him in jail. Then told the minister "Now it's 200".

    Pakistanis simply had to arrest 'someone'. Perceptions are more powerful than reality. And if perceptions say Pakistanis must have done it, then Pakistan has to show it's doing something about it to avoid war.

    Let's see if any proof is presented. Right now the Indians are stumbling along changing stories every other day. Latest was the attackers left a sack of Pakistani flour, a satellite phone with Pakistani numbers on it, and unbelievably some rolls of Pakistani toilet paper in the abandoned boat.

    I know they wouldn't have much use for a sack of flour and toilet paper on a suicide mission - but a satellite phone?

  6. PS:

    Thank you for your wishes. Btw, after I got one of those usual msgs, I decided to send mine, which said, "Eid will be Mubarak only when we learn the true meaning of the spirit of sacrifice and acceptance." Only two people replied - both Pakistanis. Not one IM.

    Do you think they are pissed off with me because I did not walk from CST to Oberoi? Can I get away by saying it would have distracted them??

    Re. BJP, just wait and let em develop my theories properly...

    Zardari gets published in all those papers because the Pakistani press is very picky. They ask me to write!
    - - -


    No, I did not put the Allah, Army, America in so many worsds...I probably spent several paras doing so...

    Your theory about the BJP and RAW is spot on, but see you can get away with it...I will have to change my name to Falguni Pathak.

    - - -


    {"The Army is always prepared to occupy the political citadel. The ISI is doing pretty much what it wants. The grand display of removing its political interference was a cosmetic exercise."

    And they told you all this in your living room, right? Guesswork and cynicism, don\'t call it historical understanding.}

    Nope. In my bedroom while I was lying down. One, I have not called it historical understanding, although i do have it and if you go back you will notice this pattern. This is not something unusual. If cynicism means not accepting the poppycock theories, then so be it. Just FYI, I did speak with someone who knows, who belongs to a political party...I suppose they are all doing guesswork.

    Re. your second point, Indian officials accused him based on what the captured terrorist said. So, Pakistan follows the Indian line and agrees that Lakhvi is the mastermind?

    Perhaps you'd like to read the comment above, after yours.

    - - -


    It is a sad farce...and it isn't pleasant for India too.

    The items they left on the boat are to convey kaunsi chakki ka aata khaatey hai, aur hum vilayati type hai, pochte hai...satellite phone...to be of some help...better than Wagah candle carrying.

    Note: To be take with a dose of lightheartedness, and based on the reports.

  7. Dragging the army and the ISI into everything is what I would call poppycock.

    Btw, what exactly are you calling "poppycock theories"?

    I said we were not the ones who 'touted' Lakhvi as the mastermind; once you guys did that, was it possible not to arrest him? It's not a matter of following anyone's line. I presume he will be tried, and conviction is another matter...there will have to be evidence for that.

  8. I wish you had read this post, which was mainly about Dawood and Afzal and has to do with India. Okay?

    You want to pick out stray lines like the others do, then it is your choice. If you have not read the many posts on the subject, then clearly you don't know what I am talking about. Poppycock theories are those that do not have a basis, and that happens to come from BOTH sides.

    One is not dragging the ISI and army into everything...you were among the ones who talked about the army this and the army that not too long ago. Pakistan does have an army that rears its head, it does have the ISI whose role is not unimportant.

    About Lakhvi, you want to split hairs...you guys did not 'tout' his name...but the guy, who is right now being called Pakistani did. And you are telling me that whatever we say, Pakistan accepts...or whatever word you use. Of course, he will be tried...who said he won't? There has been a call for other arrests earlier and it was not done...let us face it: this time the pressures are different.

    We will have to disagree...

  9. "... kaunsi chakki ka aata khaatey hai, aur hum vilayati type hai, pochte hai..."

    Haha FV that's hilarious!!! BTW the first is a common turn-of-the-phrase in Pakistani Central Punjab (where did you pick it up?), while the second - I recall a 'truly' respected interactor at another site used to say something to this effect ... haha. Thanks for the laughs.

  10. Hey Farzana,

    Kargil related to Pokhran blasts? Really? Didn't Pakistan carry out their own tests directly after? Why wage war in addition? If it was tit-for-tat, my immediate reaction is wow! Talk about a complete overreaction on Pakistan's part. Not justifiable even on the principle of an eye for an eye.

    I agree that demanding that Pakistan "hand over" suspects to India in the absence of solid evidence is a ridiculous demand. India would never succumb to such a demand either. As it shouldn't. Just generally demanding that someone Pakistani or non-Pakistani be extradited and tried in India is somehow preposterous unless there is not just enough evidence but also some guarantee of a fair trial.

    I mean, just imagine if the US government suspected some Indian of terrorist activities based on weak evidence and demanded that s/he be handed over. I earnestly hope that the Indian government wouldn't swoop down on the person and prepare the exchange with few questions asked. I mean if Guantanamo is the person's future, the Indian government owes it to its citizens to ensure that, at the very least, the evidence is solid!

    Anyway, its not as if extradition works smoothly. Some time ago I heard of an NGO that tried to get a foreign paedophile-pornographer couple, who abused dozens of street kids in Bombay, extradited from their home country (the UK, if I'm not mistaken). All to no avail. I don't think it got any press coverage, which was unsurprising given that the victims were dirt poor. But even in a clear case like that where the evidence was solid, the foreign government refused to budge and hand over the perpetrators to the Indian justice system.

    And India expects that of Pakistan? Pipedreams!
    I suppose this is a ruse to try and distract from the real issue of gross incompetence, monumental screw-ups and weak tactics in dealing with the aftermath. I wonder if it will work.

  11. I did read the post, and yes it was about India and those two, but why do you call anything else figuring in it "stray lines"? Do you expect people to not take issue with things you say simply because they weren't centre-stage?

    I seriously doubt I said "the army this and the army that" here at any point.

    The question about poppycock theories was not an accusation, it was a silly QUESTION...as in, which "conspiracy theory" do you find poppycock. But forget it now.

    Woah, you're the one splitting hairs over Lakhvi.

    "We will have to disagree..."

  12. Farzana,

    It has become very apparent that the latest terror attacks in Mumbai could be carried out because of support from the underworld.

    That being the case, there is nothing wrong in asking the dons to be handed over because everybody knows that the controls are with them.

    As regards Chhota Rajan, Advani allowed him to grow so that he could counter the influence of Dawood. Perverse logic, but what can you do?

  13. Milind:

    I have mentioned the role of the underworld often enough...and that piece is somewhere around here...my objection is that we bring up these names only during such times when Dawood has had a history of local crimes for very long.

    If you have the time and inclination do click the link at the top of the sidebar 'Mumbai: Beyond Terror where I have followed almost all the news items and those not mentioned.


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