EPIC = Extremely Peaceful (yes EXTREMELY peaceful) Intricate Craft :) They're just...ETHEREAL. Bjork too. Something in the Icelandic air I think.
Hum donoh nai rozay nai rakhay...I liked what that indian muslim acquaintance of yours said...
Why do you have your acts categorized as positive/negative? Are they all premeditated? What happens when the magnet draws only ambiguity? Thanks though. I'd hate to be at the receiving end of one of your negative acts :)
If only air could produce music...even just wind instruments...
Liked your EPIC.
And now, WHAT is this:
Why do you have your acts categorized as positive/negative? Are they all premeditated? What happens when the magnet draws only ambiguity? Thanks though. I'd hate to be at the receiving end of one of your negative acts :)
1. You people are the ones who accuse me of negativity, so I used the word, tongue-in-cheek.
2. I am afraid you really are pushing it when you say the +ve/-ve are premeditated. I write what I feel strongly about.
3. Ambiguity can be there in perception, not in the relating of it. I may be ambiguous about some people, my own emotions regarding something...but if I have to respond, then it will indeed be as I feel at that given moment. No ambiguity there. Life has offered me plenty of confusion in all these years.
4. It might help if you did not confuse my views entirely with how I deal with people. I do not indulge in negative acts, as far as I know. Sometimes people get hurt...but that is when I positively tell them to go take a walk. It is only for their own good. Seriously.
But seriously, if my acts were negative, I would have been...oh, forget it.
Tanha tanha always has me in tears and I like all the ghazals in the album 'Kehna Ussey'. Especially 'Khuli jo aankh':
http://youtu.be/iGos70Ybid0
I had tried singing it before a musician friend and only then realised how intricate the raags are, and obviously I shut up. I get goosebumps on this one.
"Ambiguity can be there in perception, not in the relating of it. I may be ambiguous about some people, my own emotions regarding something...but if I have to respond, then it will indeed be as I feel at that given moment"
This is HUGE for me. Do YOU realize how profound it is?? I cant thank you enough. Do you remember when I said I was trying to figure you out and maybe myself in the process? You just clarified something that I've been struggling with for quite a few years now...I never know how to express myself cogently without the ambiguity seeping in. I always feel like I'm neither here nor there. You do it with such ease and finality even though you say you may have doubts! It's AMAZING!
As for what I said earlier, -I'm- afraid you've misunderstood me yet again and I'm done apologizing :)
No, I did not think of it as profound. It is what happens. With me. If it has uncluttered some thoughts for you, then I am glad. Of course, I am riddled with doubts, but I can say it in such a manner that there are no doubts about my doubts.
PS: I don't look for apologies, just some understanding.
Mstaab:
Is it you?
I do not know who/what you were specifically addressing, but I'll jump in anyway.
The nature of the text is part of the 'problem'. It is the way in which we have accumulated several texts that might make us read another text based on those inputs. An ambiguous text can be reasoned/interpreted without obfuscation...evened out, so to say. However, if we are already carrying a load, we might mirror that ambiguity in a larger frame.
It is me, Farzana. I'm still somewhat beside myself at Google to avail myself of their "+" service (as remedy for those occasions when I may not be myself, lol). Of course, even then . . .
Certainly you have got right to the nub of it (as they say). However, my initial comment wasn't so much directed at *the* text; but text, generally, and mostly for Meriam's benefit (who loves . . . "childishly"). What came to mind whilst considering yours and her comments relative to ambiguity was how poorly text provides for certainty -- for predictability, perhaps. I was reminded how, when my kids were younger and (for whatever childish infraction) were in trouble, invariably my rants (in-between breaths) became peppered with the refrain, "I love you, dad," in an almost talismanic way -- and certainly, initially, the refrain had its intended effect of diffusing my laser-beam focus on whatever it was they'd done deserving of correction (in that their wide-eyed reaction and invocation of "love" was so cute). The charm, however (through overuse, perhaps) didn't last . . .
Certainly there is room -- most particularly with children -- to suppose a great deal of ambiguity where words (or text) is concerned in that they have yet to accumulate a data-base of checks, verifications, templates, against which to evaluate a statement, whether spoken or inscribed. A threshhold is assumed, however (a time-frame, for some; though I rely more on other indications), where such a data-base is expected to be sufficient to the task.
Meriam, I noticed, augmented her text with a smiley-face -- are emoticons sort of talismanic in this respect?
I didn't see a smiley-face; yet you found one in her response. "Seriously" *might* suggest what has gone before wasn't serious, thus humor -- thus typically accompanied by a smile -- however it could also be an insistence that one is being serious, seriously. How do you decide?
>>It's kind of automatic :)<<
"kind of" . . . do you mean, like, "on cue"?
>>I MAY have buffered my criticisms with too many explanations because I AM a little scared of her ;)<<
Certainly; but the winkie-face belies that fright. Typo?
Certainly "ambiguity" seeps, Meriam, as you so eloquently describe it. It's like "doubt," as Farzana suggests, and doubt wears-away at confidence. However, rather than freak, why not examine those things/ideas in which one has placed confidence?
Have you any thoughts on Farzana's reply that, "if we are already carrying a load, we might mirror that ambiguity in a larger frame"? :)
"I didn't see a smiley-face; yet you found one in her response."
"Oh, good to know you love something :)"
Theres the smiley face see? You probably missed it because of the '...' that followed. But even if she hadnt smiled...I would've found one depending on my mood. Arent all our conversations about what we take away from them?
""Seriously" *might* suggest what has gone before wasn't serious, thus humor -- thus typically accompanied by a smile -- however it could also be an insistence that one is being serious, seriously. How do you decide?"
Between seriousness and humor there is light heartedness also and thats where I'm coming from in this instance :)
""kind of" . . . do you mean, like, "on cue"?"
Yes...and I hesitate to add this but...here goes...I think I smile apologetically all the time because I'm generally sorry for who I am :)
"Certainly; but the winkie-face belies that fright. Typo?"
No, light heartedness again :)
" However, rather than freak, why not examine those things/ideas in which one has placed confidence?"
I dont freak out about it. It's just the way it is. In my case theres always been a bit of deficit in confidence :)I am bravest and most comfortable behind a keyboard :) There isnt much to examine really.
"Have you any thoughts on Farzana's reply that, "if we are already carrying a load, we might mirror that ambiguity in a larger frame"? :)"
I totally agree. Did not emphasise it because I think it's obvious. All our reactions and opinions are the product of our experiences and circumstances.
>>Theres the smiley face see? You probably missed it . . .<<
Different post, Meriam. Though I did make reference to your earlier . . . erm, self-deprecating-albeit-light-hearted "childish" love response, my own single sentence opener relative to *ambiguity* addressed yours and Farzana's subsequent exchange wherein -- count 'em -- no, she hadn't smiled; though, yes, I can see why you would've found one depending on your mood . . .
>>I am bravest and most comfortable behind a keyboard :)<<
Apparently so, considering your Modi escalation. I also recall from, oh, several months ago a statement where you suggest that this type of exchange is the way you like it. I don't mind (I mostly lurk anyway); but its not my blog.
>>All our reactions and opinions are the product of our experiences and circumstances.<<
Certainly some of us can be conditioned thus . . . : )
Umm...sorry...did not think it important to differentiate between certain responses since they're all in the same vein?? We both started of smiling...just continued with it? You're awfully nitpicky Mr. Mark. Are you...a teacher? :)
Why has farzana gone all quiet?
"Apparently so, considering your Modi escalation. I also recall from, oh, several months ago a statement where you suggest that this type of exchange is the way you like it. I don't mind (I mostly lurk anyway); but its not my blog."
Damn! You remember what I wrote several months ago?! -I- dont remember what I wrote last week! And suddenly I'm afraid to enter a smiley face here!
There is no 'modi escalation', just extreme frustration at the donkey like obstinacy of certain individuals who INSIST on being prejudiced. I dont understand it.
I HOPE farzana doesnt mind me on here. Do you F?
Lastly, I dont think being brave and confident behind a keyboard is exclusive only to me :) We all let our masks slip quite a bit in the relative anonymity of cyberspace :)
Should I be happy that smileys are getting me prime time?!
I quite see the analogy between text and 'pretext', so to speak, and the context of children and diffusion does express ambiguity.
Certainly there is room -- most particularly with children -- to suppose a great deal of ambiguity where words (or text) is concerned in that they have yet to accumulate a data-base of checks, verifications, templates, against which to evaluate a statement, whether spoken or inscribed. A threshhold is assumed, however (a time-frame, for some; though I rely more on other indications), where such a data-base is expected to be sufficient to the task.
Can the database not be bound by a timeframe? Aren’t databases often only the foundation on which we build our opinions, and with the shifting sands are forced into ambiguity?
Meriam, I noticed, augmented her text with a smiley-face -- are emoticons sort of talismanic in this respect?
I think we have come a long way since then, and it was all light-hearted. To think that I was wagging my horns :)
Outside of the dialogue between the two of you (interesting!), let me take a shot at emoticons. They can be talismanic just as words are. Is the intent to obfuscate or to shield? Are shields not often armours? Again, there is ambiguity in not the text or the perception, but the employment.
Sometimes, we are conditioned; often, the conditions make us do what we did not know what we were capable of. Let us just say that ambiguity in an inbuilt hazard, but when we are to deal with rubble it sort of meshes!
Farzana - "Of course, I am riddled with doubts, but I can say it in such a manner that there are no doubts about my doubts."
I must learn how to do this too.
No! What I mean is that there are no doubts left about my being in doubt. That is to say, if I am confused, I do not camouflage it. Interesting how it can be read in the way you did, and it seems quite in order. There are people who do not think I can have doubts, although I can be a Doubting Thomasin :)
PS: Don’t know whether Mark is a teacher or not, but a few exchanges I have had with him (esp. about temple sculptures and stuff which will make me seem like the proverbial kasai!) have been educative for me.
In the same line you dismiss my "escalation" and invoke your "frustration" -- semantics, certainly -- and yet I would hazard that your effort to blow off steam, as they say, only resulted in more fuel being piled onto the fires of your frustration.
For what it's worth, you may wish to contemplate this in the context of 'conditioning' . . . :)
On the contrary, Farzana, while I would hardly underestimate your capacity for multi-tasking, I am always terribly conscious of precisely that: your time/your space. Equally, there are certain social, cultural, religious proprieties. By that I mean the very act of communication -- transmitter and receiver, 'feed' and 'feed back' -- in all its variform methods, art, music, dance, debate, speech, politics, trade -- social 'intercourse', as they say -- is fraught with sexual innuendo (hetero *and* homo) which plays hell with certain acquired 'sensibilities' (aka 'prejudices'). These acquired sensibilities are drawn on an order -- an hierarchy -- begun with a priviledging (and, yes, lol, temple sculpture did come to mind) that establishes who may speak. One can either be silenced thus; or not, and risk being silenced in some other manner. One can either take the lowest seat in hope of eventually being asked to come up higher; or one can presume to the higher and run the risk of being told to give way for another.
>>I quite see the analogy between text and 'pretext'<<
I hadn't -- quite -- now I do. Thank you.
>>the context of children and diffusion does express ambiguity<<
Again, interesting. Kinda like an ink-cloud?
>>Can the database not be bound by a timeframe?<<
I think so. The sufficiency of it seems to me more directly contingent on the task rather than on the time. Until that sufficiency is met, what relevance has time?
>>Aren’t databases often only the foundation on which we build our opinions, and with the shifting sands are forced into ambiguity?<<
Oh how I love me some Sigur Ros! :) They're so EPIC.
ReplyDeleteOh, good to know you love something :)...(is this not what she'd like to say here?)
ReplyDeleteWhat does EPIC stand for? Extremely Potent Intense Craving?
Belated Eid greetings...this is my positive act for the day.
I love...childishly :)
ReplyDeleteEPIC = Extremely Peaceful (yes EXTREMELY peaceful) Intricate Craft :) They're just...ETHEREAL. Bjork too. Something in the Icelandic air I think.
Hum donoh nai rozay nai rakhay...I liked what that indian muslim acquaintance of yours said...
Why do you have your acts categorized as positive/negative? Are they all premeditated? What happens when the magnet draws only ambiguity? Thanks though. I'd hate to be at the receiving end of one of your negative acts :)
FV
ReplyDeleteTwo more of my favourites:
http://tinyurl.com/3bohdjk
http://tinyurl.com/3f97n6c
The first one is a rendition after Mehdi Hasan developed throat cancer. One of his last performances, I think.
TE
Meriam:
ReplyDeleteIf only air could produce music...even just wind instruments...
Liked your EPIC.
And now, WHAT is this:
Why do you have your acts categorized as positive/negative? Are they all premeditated? What happens when the magnet draws only ambiguity? Thanks though. I'd hate to be at the receiving end of one of your negative acts :)
1. You people are the ones who accuse me of negativity, so I used the word, tongue-in-cheek.
2. I am afraid you really are pushing it when you say the +ve/-ve are premeditated. I write what I feel strongly about.
3. Ambiguity can be there in perception, not in the relating of it. I may be ambiguous about some people, my own emotions regarding something...but if I have to respond, then it will indeed be as I feel at that given moment. No ambiguity there. Life has offered me plenty of confusion in all these years.
4. It might help if you did not confuse my views entirely with how I deal with people. I do not indulge in negative acts, as far as I know. Sometimes people get hurt...but that is when I positively tell them to go take a walk. It is only for their own good. Seriously.
But seriously, if my acts were negative, I would have been...oh, forget it.
TE:
ReplyDeleteTanha tanha always has me in tears and I like all the ghazals in the album 'Kehna Ussey'. Especially 'Khuli jo aankh':
http://youtu.be/iGos70Ybid0
I had tried singing it before a musician friend and only then realised how intricate the raags are, and obviously I shut up. I get goosebumps on this one.
Thanks for sharing...
"Ambiguity can be there in perception, not in the relating of it. I may be ambiguous about some people, my own emotions regarding something...but if I have to respond, then it will indeed be as I feel at that given moment"
ReplyDeleteThis is HUGE for me. Do YOU realize how profound it is?? I cant thank you enough. Do you remember when I said I was trying to figure you out and maybe myself in the process? You just clarified something that I've been struggling with for quite a few years now...I never know how to express myself cogently without the ambiguity seeping in. I always feel like I'm neither here nor there. You do it with such ease and finality even though you say you may have doubts! It's AMAZING!
As for what I said earlier, -I'm- afraid you've misunderstood me yet again and I'm done apologizing :)
Hi,
ReplyDeleteFor what its worth, I think its the nature of text -- in part -- lending to that ambiguity.
M.
Meriam:
ReplyDeleteNo, I did not think of it as profound. It is what happens. With me. If it has uncluttered some thoughts for you, then I am glad. Of course, I am riddled with doubts, but I can say it in such a manner that there are no doubts about my doubts.
PS: I don't look for apologies, just some understanding.
Mstaab:
Is it you?
I do not know who/what you were specifically addressing, but I'll jump in anyway.
The nature of the text is part of the 'problem'. It is the way in which we have accumulated several texts that might make us read another text based on those inputs. An ambiguous text can be reasoned/interpreted without obfuscation...evened out, so to say. However, if we are already carrying a load, we might mirror that ambiguity in a larger frame.
Hope I am making some sense here.
It is me, Farzana. I'm still somewhat beside myself at Google to avail myself of their "+" service (as remedy for those occasions when I may not be myself, lol). Of course, even then . . .
ReplyDeleteCertainly you have got right to the nub of it (as they say). However, my initial comment wasn't so much directed at *the* text; but text, generally, and mostly for Meriam's benefit (who loves . . . "childishly"). What came to mind whilst considering yours and her comments relative to ambiguity was how poorly text provides for certainty -- for predictability, perhaps. I was reminded how, when my kids were younger and (for whatever childish infraction) were in trouble, invariably my rants (in-between breaths) became peppered with the refrain, "I love you, dad," in an almost talismanic way -- and certainly, initially, the refrain had its intended effect of diffusing my laser-beam focus on whatever it was they'd done deserving of correction (in that their wide-eyed reaction and invocation of "love" was so cute). The charm, however (through overuse, perhaps) didn't last . . .
Certainly there is room -- most particularly with children -- to suppose a great deal of ambiguity where words (or text) is concerned in that they have yet to accumulate a data-base of checks, verifications, templates, against which to evaluate a statement, whether spoken or inscribed. A threshhold is assumed, however (a time-frame, for some; though I rely more on other indications), where such a data-base is expected to be sufficient to the task.
Meriam, I noticed, augmented her text with a smiley-face -- are emoticons sort of talismanic in this respect?
Farzana - "Of course, I am riddled with doubts, but I can say it in such a manner that there are no doubts about my doubts."
ReplyDeleteI must learn how to do this too.
Mstaab - "Certainly you have got right to the nub of it"
Doesn't she always? :)
"Meriam, I noticed, augmented her text with a smiley-face -- are emoticons sort of talismanic in this respect?"
Not..really...not in this case atleast. I smiled because she smiled. It's kind of automatic :)
In the past however, I MAY have buffered my criticisms with too many explanations because I AM a little scared of her ;)
Hi Meriam,
ReplyDeleteCall me Mark. : )
>>Doesn't she always? :)<<
Inerrantly, imv.
>>. . . I smiled because she smiled.<<
I didn't see a smiley-face; yet you found one in her response. "Seriously" *might* suggest what has gone before wasn't serious, thus humor -- thus typically accompanied by a smile -- however it could also be an insistence that one is being serious, seriously. How do you decide?
>>It's kind of automatic :)<<
"kind of" . . . do you mean, like, "on cue"?
>>I MAY have buffered my criticisms with too many explanations because I AM a little scared of her ;)<<
Certainly; but the winkie-face belies that fright. Typo?
Certainly "ambiguity" seeps, Meriam, as you so eloquently describe it. It's like "doubt," as Farzana suggests, and doubt wears-away at confidence. However, rather than freak, why not examine those things/ideas in which one has placed confidence?
Have you any thoughts on Farzana's reply that, "if we are already carrying a load, we might mirror that ambiguity in a larger frame"? :)
Hello Mark :)
ReplyDelete"I didn't see a smiley-face; yet you found one in her response."
"Oh, good to know you love something :)"
Theres the smiley face see? You probably missed it because of the '...' that followed. But even if she hadnt smiled...I would've found one depending on my mood. Arent all our conversations about what we take away from them?
""Seriously" *might* suggest what has gone before wasn't serious, thus humor -- thus typically accompanied by a smile -- however it could also be an insistence that one is being serious, seriously. How do you decide?"
Between seriousness and humor there is light heartedness also and thats where I'm coming from in this instance :)
""kind of" . . . do you mean, like, "on cue"?"
Yes...and I hesitate to add this but...here goes...I think I smile apologetically all the time because I'm generally sorry for who I am :)
"Certainly; but the winkie-face belies that fright. Typo?"
No, light heartedness again :)
" However, rather than freak, why not examine those things/ideas in which one has placed confidence?"
I dont freak out about it. It's just the way it is. In my case theres always been a bit of deficit in confidence :)I am bravest and most comfortable behind a keyboard :) There isnt much to examine really.
"Have you any thoughts on Farzana's reply that, "if we are already carrying a load, we might mirror that ambiguity in a larger frame"? :)"
I totally agree. Did not emphasise it because I think it's obvious. All our reactions and opinions are the product of our experiences and circumstances.
:)
>>Theres the smiley face see? You probably missed it . . .<<
ReplyDeleteDifferent post, Meriam. Though I did make reference to your earlier . . . erm, self-deprecating-albeit-light-hearted "childish" love response, my own single sentence opener relative to *ambiguity* addressed yours and Farzana's subsequent exchange wherein -- count 'em -- no, she hadn't smiled; though, yes, I can see why you would've found one depending on your mood . . .
>>I am bravest and most comfortable behind a keyboard :)<<
Apparently so, considering your Modi escalation. I also recall from, oh, several months ago a statement where you suggest that this type of exchange is the way you like it. I don't mind (I mostly lurk anyway); but its not my blog.
>>All our reactions and opinions are the product of our experiences and circumstances.<<
Certainly some of us can be conditioned thus . . . : )
"Different post, Meriam."
ReplyDeleteUmm...sorry...did not think it important to differentiate between certain responses since they're all in the same vein?? We both started of smiling...just continued with it? You're awfully nitpicky Mr. Mark. Are you...a teacher? :)
Why has farzana gone all quiet?
"Apparently so, considering your Modi escalation. I also recall from, oh, several months ago a statement where you suggest that this type of exchange is the way you like it. I don't mind (I mostly lurk anyway); but its not my blog."
Damn! You remember what I wrote several months ago?! -I- dont remember what I wrote last week! And suddenly I'm afraid to enter a smiley face here!
There is no 'modi escalation', just extreme frustration at the donkey like obstinacy of certain individuals who INSIST on being prejudiced. I dont understand it.
I HOPE farzana doesnt mind me on here. Do you F?
Lastly, I dont think being brave and confident behind a keyboard is exclusive only to me :) We all let our masks slip quite a bit in the relative anonymity of cyberspace :)
Mark:
ReplyDeleteShould I be happy that smileys are getting me prime time?!
I quite see the analogy between text and 'pretext', so to speak, and the context of children and diffusion does express ambiguity.
Certainly there is room -- most particularly with children -- to suppose a great deal of ambiguity where words (or text) is concerned in that they have yet to accumulate a data-base of checks, verifications, templates, against which to evaluate a statement, whether spoken or inscribed. A threshhold is assumed, however (a time-frame, for some; though I rely more on other indications), where such a data-base is expected to be sufficient to the task.
Can the database not be bound by a timeframe? Aren’t databases often only the foundation on which we build our opinions, and with the shifting sands are forced into ambiguity?
Meriam, I noticed, augmented her text with a smiley-face -- are emoticons sort of talismanic in this respect?
I think we have come a long way since then, and it was all light-hearted. To think that I was wagging my horns :)
Outside of the dialogue between the two of you (interesting!), let me take a shot at emoticons. They can be talismanic just as words are. Is the intent to obfuscate or to shield? Are shields not often armours? Again, there is ambiguity in not the text or the perception, but the employment.
Sometimes, we are conditioned; often, the conditions make us do what we did not know what we were capable of. Let us just say that ambiguity in an inbuilt hazard, but when we are to deal with rubble it sort of meshes!
Meriam:
ReplyDeleteFarzana - "Of course, I am riddled with doubts, but I can say it in such a manner that there are no doubts about my doubts."
I must learn how to do this too.
No! What I mean is that there are no doubts left about my being in doubt. That is to say, if I am confused, I do not camouflage it. Interesting how it can be read in the way you did, and it seems quite in order. There are people who do not think I can have doubts, although I can be a Doubting Thomasin :)
PS: Don’t know whether Mark is a teacher or not, but a few exchanges I have had with him (esp. about temple sculptures and stuff which will make me seem like the proverbial kasai!) have been educative for me.
Meriam,
ReplyDeleteIn the same line you dismiss my "escalation" and invoke your "frustration" -- semantics, certainly -- and yet I would hazard that your effort to blow off steam, as they say, only resulted in more fuel being piled onto the fires of your frustration.
For what it's worth, you may wish to contemplate this in the context of 'conditioning' . . . :)
On the contrary, Farzana, while I would hardly underestimate your capacity for multi-tasking, I am always terribly conscious of precisely that: your time/your space. Equally, there are certain social, cultural, religious proprieties. By that I mean the very act of communication -- transmitter and receiver, 'feed' and 'feed back' -- in all its variform methods, art, music, dance, debate, speech, politics, trade -- social 'intercourse', as they say -- is fraught with sexual innuendo (hetero *and* homo) which plays hell with certain acquired 'sensibilities' (aka 'prejudices'). These acquired sensibilities are drawn on an order -- an hierarchy -- begun with a priviledging (and, yes, lol, temple sculpture did come to mind) that establishes who may speak. One can either be silenced thus; or not, and risk being silenced in some other manner. One can either take the lowest seat in hope of eventually being asked to come up higher; or one can presume to the higher and run the risk of being told to give way for another.
ReplyDelete>>I quite see the analogy between text and 'pretext'<<
I hadn't -- quite -- now I do. Thank you.
>>the context of children and diffusion does express ambiguity<<
Again, interesting. Kinda like an ink-cloud?
>>Can the database not be bound by a timeframe?<<
I think so. The sufficiency of it seems to me more directly contingent on the task rather than on the time. Until that sufficiency is met, what relevance has time?
>>Aren’t databases often only the foundation on which we build our opinions, and with the shifting sands are forced into ambiguity?<<
Yes, often.
>>. . . To think that I was wagging my horns :)<<
Preposterous, I agree. :)